to wonder why dr's are so dismissive of "alternative" therapies?

[tialys]

For example - ds1 was a very difficult baby - he either cried or fed. He saw a cranial osteopath (as a last resort) when he was 5/6 months old. Within 2 days, he was a different baby. Dr's completely dismissed it as coincidence, as CO is completely untested and unresearched.
So 5 years down the line, it must have been another coincidence when ds2 underwent a similar miracle cure?

Another example - I've spent the last few months with terrible asthma - hospitalised 3 times, nothing the dr's did made any difference at all.
I've started having accupuncture (again as a last resort) and within 2 weeks, my asthma is better than it has been for years. Saw my dr, who said "ah good - looks like your steroid inhaler is finally doing its job" (I started it months before the astham attacks started ) and warned me away from charlatans like acupuncturists.

Why can't they accept that sometimes, alternative therapies can be more effective than giving more and more drugs to their patients?

nicky cranial osteopathy works for lots of people

"By the way, anyone who has an ounce of respect for that utter, utter arse-and-a-half Ben Goldacre has my scorn and my sympathy in equal measure."

Spidey: will you marry me. I love you.

Who's the friend? What was the topic?

Spidermama, do you have an actual point to make about any kind of medicine or have you just come online to discuss your feelings about other people's personalities?

Sorry spidermama, I do have some respect for him, because he has a better understanding of statistics than the great british public... and I quite like his Mark Thomas style debunking of quite basic means of fraud- eg detoxifying footbaths etc. Also like his demands for better quality, more rigorous drug trials...

NB- upthread someone said you cant do sham acupuncture: actually its very possible: the theories behind acupuncture demand needles are inserted at paricular points and meridians? - sham acupuncture involves inserting the needles at random - and in the studies done so far sometimes works better than placebo and 'real' acupuncture
go figure

Oh LOL!

It wasn't Aric Sigman was it?

Dear me, your perspective is quite, quite deranged, isn't it.

I came across him ranting against breastfeeding on a blog and put him on my 'avoid' list.

Here from about four minutes in.

I think he comes across as a ridiculous man attempting to be trendy getting increasingly hysterical because he has come across someone far more suave, experienced and intelligent, yet free thinking, than he is.

As far as I can see this man spends his life seeking to rubbish the work of others who he doesn't understand and putting in his hair an amount of gel which is inappropriate for a man of his years.

"Spidermama, do you have an actual point to make about any kind of medicine or have you just come online to discuss your feelings about other people's personalities?"

PMSL! So sorry MillyR that my posts don't meet with your approval.

Same link to the clip, bit more background.

He is quite appalling. What my mother would call "a ghastly little man". Horrid. He was forced to take off his blog a nasty comment that parents who believed their children were damaged by MMR were not welcome.

Ugh.

aren't they made up mumbo jumbo?

CarmenSanDiego - I've still got some posts to read, but you've said exactly how I feel, but I'm obviously too stupid to articulate

Snowflake - at no point did anyone claim aromatherapy would heal my MIL of cancer, but at the holistic oncology centre attached to the hospital where she recieved her treatment, they did say it would help relieve her of headaches and sickness after chemo, and would relieve the stress that she was suffering, knowing that she was going to die. From our point of view, it did exactly that.

aren't they made up mumbo jumbo?

Some. But not all.

MillyR - don't forget hair and clothes - remember science isn't just about personality. It's also about how much media training you've had.

SM, you seem to be ignoring the fact that homeopathy, acupuncture, osteopathy, aromatherapy, reflexology and all the rest of those alternative therapies actually HAVE been tested, and found to work no better than placebo.

The whole point of modern science is that you have to test something to determine your opinion of it, so to state that scientists will blindly dismiss things without examining them is utter rubbish. The only reason these tests don't get air time is because they are what led to the current consensus - they proved that the alternative therapies work no better than placebo.

I've had 'hands on healing', hypnotherapy, reflexology, kinesiology and various homeopathinc remedies as a child because my mother loved them. When I was seventeen I started having convulsions and my GP told me that it was stress and I would grow out of it. My mum tried dragging out the alternative therapies again. Finally, I changed my GP, and you know what? It turns out I have epilepsy - something that every single one of those alternative therapists (and a rather rubbish GP, as it happens) missed. My point? Yes, you get bad GPs, and the pharmaceutical system isn't perfect, but at least a medical professional actually worked out what was wrong with me, by performing appropriate, evidence-based medical tests, rather than trying to remove stresses and toxins that blatantly didn't exist.

homeopathy, acupuncture, osteopathy, aromatherapy, reflexology and all the rest of those alternative therapies actually HAVE been tested, and found to work no better than placebo.

Really? I'm interested in the design of a test of aromatherapy against a placebo.

Here is one study that shows acupuncture may have significant effect on hypertension.

There is emerging evidence in several of these areas. I'll grant you it doesn't look too good for homeopathy but this blanket statement is simply not true.

"A GP who does homeopathy... what a scary thought."

Belgium is full of MDs who will be pharma, nutritionist or naturopath. Will prescribe drugs, vitamins or homeopathic remedy, or refer to kinesthesiologist, chiropractor, osteopath -- it's very refreshing and open minded. It would be nice to see more of it in the UK.

Yes upandrunning a ghastly little man indeed. My mother would call him odious.

Brux you have called me 'deranged' and said all alternative therapies are 'woo, crystals and snake oil'. You also accused PPea of 'swinging drunkenly'. Strong words for someone who has never met me and has probably never experienced alternative therapy of any sort.

You need to tone down the personal attacks because they are standing in the way of proper debate and making you look, well, a bit nasty quite honestly.

As a result I think I'll have a spray of rescue remedy and go and tidy my room.

Also, has anyone here actually claimed that any of these therapies can cure cancer or epilepsy?

Nope. Not what they're designed for. Although it's plausible that they could have immune stimulating effects or stress reducing effects which could boost your body's own defences.

what has his height got to do with it?
Are your mums a bit snobby by any chance?

Not sure about "suaveness" but Ben Goldacre's excellent grasp of statistical analysis is certainly a useful thing to have when discussing whether medicines work or not.

I just looked at that Youtube clip and I just can't see what you've seen in it. To me, Aric Sigman came across as a scaremongering snake-oil salesman who (as it was revealed by Goldman) had ignored opposing evidence.

Yes, Bruxeur, you are standing in the way of proper debate!

So, anyone have an opinion on Marie Curie's hairstyle? Should she perhaps have gone for a beehive or a bob?

havent read whole thread but my gp is very pro alternative therapies.my gps are lovely

It is equally annoying when "groovy" Drs bang on about nothing but alternative therapies. One GP was of the opinion that my arthritis is caused by candidiasis... simply because I happened to ask for some Canesten with my anti-biotics (I always get thrush after anti-biotics!).

Can't make up my mind whether they are worse or better than "with it" vicars, or teachers who want to be best mates with their pupils.