to wonder why dr's are so dismissive of "alternative" therapies?

[tialys]

For example - ds1 was a very difficult baby - he either cried or fed. He saw a cranial osteopath (as a last resort) when he was 5/6 months old. Within 2 days, he was a different baby. Dr's completely dismissed it as coincidence, as CO is completely untested and unresearched.
So 5 years down the line, it must have been another coincidence when ds2 underwent a similar miracle cure?

Another example - I've spent the last few months with terrible asthma - hospitalised 3 times, nothing the dr's did made any difference at all.
I've started having accupuncture (again as a last resort) and within 2 weeks, my asthma is better than it has been for years. Saw my dr, who said "ah good - looks like your steroid inhaler is finally doing its job" (I started it months before the astham attacks started ) and warned me away from charlatans like acupuncturists.

Why can't they accept that sometimes, alternative therapies can be more effective than giving more and more drugs to their patients?

Some GPs aren't against complementary therapies - and where I worked in the NHS we had a complementary medicine centre as one of our health centres.

I think they key is to use them to complement treatment rather than in place of conventional treatment.

An osteopath cured my chronic back pain - my GP had just prescribed pain killers repeatedly. However - I still trust conventional medicine more than complementary therapies...

Yes, MillyR, my NHS physio does acupuncture too. Doesn't do it for me, but very effective pain relief for some patients.

Didn't you all know? Twas a homeopathic crystal healer who uncovered the Thalidomide disaster.

As someone who is studying hypnotherapy at the moment, can I please ask you ladies (as a bit of an aside to the thread though) what do you think a placebo is?

"There is evidence that acupuncture has an effect over placebo for a couple of things - nausea and low back pain spring to mind."

Exactly - but how many years did it take for Dr's to start introducing that alongside conventional/medical treatments?

I'm not talking about disregarding all dr's knowledge, and ignoring life saving/life improving drugs.

Everybody I know who has had acupuncture/CO have reported great improvements of their conditions , and have reported this to their Dr's - to be met with the same responses as I've had. - although I know these are still anecdotal.

Avril - here you go

About as long as it took alternative practitioners to get the message that no-one was going to take them seriously unless they produced some evidence, tialys.

One of the problems with acupuncture is that the practitioners often give people a kind of herbal soup to drink as well, which contains unregulated amounts of plant based steroids. This makes people feel better but is not a long term safe option and particularly frustrating if you are a doctor trying to treat a long term chronic illness in a less steroid based way. FWIW I think acupuncture can help some things, but the claims it makes are way too wide and hinder any genuine benefits.

Without trials, there is not enough information on dose and side effects to call treatments safe or effective. Things that do work tend to have adverse effects at a higher dose, whereas things that do nothing don't. It doesn't follow that all dangerous things have benefits at low doses - so the odds always favour risk over benefit until proven otherwise. At a push you can call some untested things safe (but do nothing) or effective (but not well enough understood) but not both.

A placebo is an inert substance given to a patient who is under the impression that it is not inert. This often makes people feel better.

In real medical trials drugs are tested against placebos, so everyone will, for example, get a blue pill, and ideally neither the doctors nor the patients know who is getting the drug and who is getting the placebo, so neither can be biased in their interpretation of their symptoms.

Actually it rather annoys me that because of the push from alternative'practitioners' to be included it now eats up NHS funds.

evidence is needed, not anecdotes

This has been the case for a long while, long enough for evidence to be compiled.

There is some evidence for acupuncture I believe. I'll see if I can find a link.

Oh god yes, all that TCM stuff with spectacularly high levels of androgens, corticosteroids and, erm, heavy metals!

Wise people though, very wise. Must be safe!

Inert with respect to having any chemical or biological effect on the condition, I mean.

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Try here, PP

So Trillian (I only pick on you cos you ansered me!!) can I ask how you think the placebo works?

I am interested in your answer in a nosey type of way - it is interesting to find out what people think of placebo's/alternative/complimentary therapies etc. and how they work. It is all useful feedback for the diploma that I am doing!

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I'm not complaining that dr's won't fund my acupuncture sessions, I'm happy to pay for that - but as it is, with their dismissive attitude, it is making me lose faith in them.
All the different drugs I have been on for asthma in the last few months, none have made a difference, so I do find it irritating that they can claim that their drugs will do far more, when clearly, in this instance, they haven't. (and that's the case with others I know - sorry, still anecdotal!)

I've never had a herbal soup

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If it were proved to work then it would not longer be alternative. So Alternative means "made up stuff to trick desperate people"

You can get better on it if (1) it was an imaginary illness in the first place or (2) you were going to get better anyway.

I can cure the common cold with my super cure.

Hold this funny shaped candle over your head and recite "on mani padme om'

repeat for 10 days and I promise your cold will be gone.

A headache is not one illness in 'Western' terms! DS gets headaches and the doctor says it is stress. My mother had headaches and the doctor said it was an expanding cyst on the brain and she needed brain surgery or would die.

Pitchounette, you are turning 'Western medicine' into a straw man.

Ppeat - It is because of what happened with thalidomide that we now have in place the standard 4-phase testing of new drugs.

Benfmsmum - I don't know. I think it's partly to do with how you interpret your symptoms. For things like headaches you probably say 'this is a bad headache / this is a medium headaches / I'll be okay / etc' depending on factors other than how swollen things are. Pain is perceptual, after all.

In terms of 'what do I think of it' I think I wish I were more credulous as then I'd be able to take advntage of the placebo effect more . I also think it's ridiculous not to choose the option that has a measurable biochemical impact if there is one available.

Start a new thread on it and ask people - it could be interesting

So Pitchounette - am I right in saying that you think a placebo is a belief in something that technology can't comprehend?