I know IABU, but please advise if you can. V V V long.

[namechangedwithgoodreason]

I live in SE, with my 18m DD.

I have family who live over 200 miles away in NE. (Dsis, her DH and their DC)

I have been feeling rather down lately, so family have invited me to stay for a few days, which is really kind of them. I agreed it would be lovely to see them again, and due to financial worries on my side, they have insisted on paying my train fare. It is a lovely lovely kind offer, but I really really don't want to go, and this is why.

I get on very well with my Dsis, but my BIL is another story. Whether it is because he feels at a loss as to what to speak to me about, I don't know, but his entire conversation to me is personally insulting my relatives in SE, especially being particularly nasty about my mother and sister in SE, whom I see every week. I find it so uncomfortable on the phone that I just mumble 'hmm, ok, it's not that bad etc etc'.
BIL calls my mother a fat lazy waste of space, and the sooner she drops dead the better. He speaks in a whiny voice when being nasty about them, and says how he would love to punch them.

This all originated from my Sis's and I not having the best childhood,quite a shitty childhood actually and my mother and sis in SE are quite controlling and narcissistic and BIL feels angry on behalf of my Dsis in NE, which I can completely understand, but to personally attack them when I have told him I get on ok with them and see them every week is horrible. My NE DSis rarely speaks to them, and BIL hasn't spoken to them in years and years.

BIL is also quite scathing of 'southerners' describing southerners as 'yuppies' 'up our own arses' 'poncy' etc, and when I phoned my Dsis a few days ago, she wasn't in, and BIL spent 20 mins on phone bragging about his widescreen tv, his new flooring, his new cooker, how he didn't need F all off of anyone because he has his beautiful lovely wife, who incidentally has spent more of her life with him now than she ever spent with her parents, and to think my mum didn't think it would last, what a joke she is.

I said people are not always right about relationships and their predictions, and his reply is that my mother is never fucking right...blah blah blah.
I ended up hanging up on him, because after 20 minutes of the same topic of conversation, I just couldn't listen to it anymore. Thought I would say cordless ran out of charge if Dsis brought it up

It's not like he talks about that 90% of time, but 10% other things, it's all how much he hates my family in SE, and bragging.

I have been to see Dsis and her family before, and it honestly doesn't change if I am there in person, in fact it just becomes hrs and hrs of how awful my mother and sis are, and how my mother doesn't deserve to have had DC, how she has got a nerve sending birthday cards and presents for her GC up north, or my Dsis up north, and the constant mickey taking out of their accents and mine. Even my DNiece's were telling BIL he was wrong to be blatantly taking the piss out of my accent when I was speaking to him on phone other evening.

I also have problems with my DNiece's, but have probably bored you all enough , so will just say that I find them rude, (they think calling you weird, or completely ignoring you is acceptable behaviour), as well as the youngest follows me all around the house, asking 'What's DD?' because she loves DD so much, and even waits outside bathroom for me to finish on toilet. (No, I don't take DD to loo, and I don't know why DN follows me and sits outside.)

On top of all of this, there is the small headache of travelling from SE, through London to NE by train, with an 18m old.

I am going to need to 3 days worth of clothes for us both, travel cot, buggy, and while I would buy nappies etc when I got there, it is beginning to seem like a mammoth task for a few days of listening to an abusive diatribe from BIL.

It is a very very kind offer, and if I told them all of this, they would see it as I am taking sides and I dont want to get drawn into taking sides, and they would never forget.

I just want a plausible excuse that is foolproof and your opinions as to whether you would consider travelling if it were you, and AIBU to be so scathing about BIL's behaviour.

FWIW, my mother was a crap mother and our childhood was one of DV from both parents, and my mother can still be controlling and narcissistic, but what BIL is talking about happened many years ago, and I love my mother, even if I do not always like her.

Sorry it is so long.

I bloody wouldn't go. It just doesn't sound worth it!

I can understand your bils rage - you often get MORE angry with someone who has hurt someone you love dearly, than with someone who has hurt you, but he should accept that you are still in contact and that's your choice.

tbh, sounds like he's jealous / feels inadequate. People who brag and who feel the need to bitch about others constantly normally do it because there's something wrong with them.

I think you should be honest - with your sister. Tell her how much it hurts you when your bil says all these things and that you are feeling low and just don't think you can take it like you normally have to.

If they stop speaking to you because of it, well, from your description of them, I don't see how that's even a problem.

Or you could say that you are feeling much more upbeat now, and stop telling them when you are low, find someone else to confide in.

Or tell them your daughter is coming down with something so you can't travel, and then when they ask again, say the feeling much better now etc etc thing.

But like I say, I think you should just tell them straight.

this sounds like something Jeremy Kyle would like to know about

He sounds like a nob and the sort of person who slags people off anyway.Could you state quite calmly that your not prepared to discuss your mum? Id just tell your sister straight to be honest " your oh a dick and i cant stand him ".

Thanks heQet

I love my Dsis up North very much, and apart from me, her contact with family down south is limited to rare phone calls between her and my mother, and birthday/xmas cards and presents.

My 2 sisters do not speak at all, and that all came to a head because of a situation I was right in the middle of. I really really do not want to fall out with my sister up North. She has been there for me when there was no one else (that's another long story.)

I know my Dsis is so looking forward to seeing me again, but the constant nastiness about southerners and in particular, my mother and southern sister is just too much to take.

The youngest DN is my Dsis's favourite and can do no wrong, but when I last saw her, my DD was days old, and after 3 days, I honestly was pleased they went home. (They came to me.)

Also my eldest DN's came to see me later in the year, refused to speak to my DP, after he asked them what time they would be arriving so he could cook them a meal. They were staying in a travel inn up the road, and they wouldn't let us know when they wanted dinner, because they felt it was too controlling to be held to a time. On this basis, they refused to utter a word to my DP, and he ended up going for a very long walk to calm down, since we waited in for them to arrive from the B&B. They had breakfast at the B&B at 8am, and then just disappeared until 4pm when they showed up wanting dinner.

DP and I felt like a restaurant, and shortly after they ate, DP popped to the shops for a bottle of wine, and whilst he was gone, they hurriedly left, so he came back and the look on his face, well I felt so awful for him, but tbh, he was glad to see the back of them, and so was I.

DP works away from home now, and will be away on the days they want me to go see them.

He says just to say it is not feasible to travel alone with an 18m old and everything she needs, but I wonder if that sounds too wishy washy IYSWIM.

You need to tell your bil to shut the fuck up about your family and to stop making threats. Oh and don't go.

From what you've said (and possibly jumping to an unfair conclusion) it sounds like you're sister's left one narcissistic and bullying family and married into another...

Plus, everything H said.

could you ask sis to come and stay with you for a couple of days instead?

dignified Oh how I would love to, but Dsis thinks the sun shines out of BIL's bumhole, and she would never ever forgive me. She would tell my BIL what I had said, and tbh, I truly believe BIL is just waiting for an excuse for my Dsis to cut off every single one of her family, and I love my Dsis to bits, and don't want her to cut me off over my BIL.

BIL is of the belief that Dsis only needs him in her life, and he really truly hates the fact she has family, he is always saying how none of her family know her anymore, she is his wife and the time she spent growing up means nothing compared to the time he has spent with Dsis.

They have been together a long time, but much as he would like to erase it, Dsis does have a past.

Ohhh, I don't know what to say, but your suggestions and opinions are really helping.

They really don't sound like very nice people, tbh. Don't you feel you are worth more than to be treated like this?

• oh, and if someone has fallen out with everyone they know, then you have to question whether it is the world that is wrong, or them.

It just seems like you tread on eggshells and lick their boots, while they walk all over you.

on her own?

The DN,s sound like a cheeky twat, how dare she be shit to your partner like this.
Sounds like you need to stand up for yourself, if they cant be respectfull of your P in his own home theyre not welcome, end of.
Im struggling to see what you get out of these relationships, if someone was rude when offered a meal at my house they would be told to fuck off. They turn up, be rude, ignore your dp then expect dinner? Bollocks, i hope youll tell them there not welcome should they want to visit again, its really not good for your children to see you being treated like this.

Just because your related to these people doesnt mean you HAVE to have them in your life op, if they cant be civil and respect you and your dp they can fuck off. Whats in it for you?

I agree, D - they showed up after refusing to let the op know when, accusing op's dp of being controlling for wanting to have an idea when to serve their meal! were ignorant to him in his own home and legged it when he went to buy them more wine!

That and the other things described by the op make me wonder wtf is going on!

OP - what about the wonderful side of your sister that makes this terrible treatment of you and the lack of respect for you and your dh worth putting up with? How is she lovely to you?

Beasknees That is a really good suggestion, but Dsis has made it very clear that she will not go anywhere without BIL or her DC.

I don't think BIL would be very happy to put it mildly if she went away without him.

When they came to see us after DD was born, we put them up in our house, as we offered to put DN's up later, and although our house is a very small house, Dsis, BIL, and 2 DN's came to stay. That was as well as DP, DS, DD and me. It was a tight squeeze.

The lack of space didn't really bother me, since it was only for a few days, it was being followed round my house constantly by DN, and being told that with all the money my DP must be on (because all southerners are loaded, right?) why didn't we have a widescreen tv, power shower, bigger house etc etc.

They spent 2.5 hrs each morning in the bathroom getting ready for the day.

In return, my Dsis will only put me and DD/DS up, not DP ever, nor my mother. They expect us to travel up north and pay for a B&B, because although they have a 4 bed house with conservatory, and can put their DD's b/f's up, it is apparently too small for us for one night, even before we had DD, and they are even more strapped for room if my mother were to go up alone.

I get what your saying op, he sounds like a bully.But your sister is a grown up and can decide on what treatment she tolerates from mr big mouth,, she doesnt get to decide what treatment YOU will put up with.

If you think she really will cut you off for daring to object to the way he talks to you, i would SERIOUSLY question whether you want to have a relationship with someone who has such little respect for you.

Will the piss taking extend to your kids when they get older? Do you really want to set the example to them that if someones related to you its ok for them to abuse you?

I get you have had a difficult background and youve probably spent years keeping your mouth shut, but if this was one of your dcs would you say it was ok?
If its not ok for one of your dcs to put up with this shit, you shouldnt be either.Tell the pair of them to fuck off until they can have more respect for you.
Re excuse, kid is ill, simple.

They wont put my DP up because they thought he was controlling to their eldest DD's over the meal thing, and my DS has now left home to go to uni, another thing which they jump on, as it must have been DP's idea for DS to go to uni, and he has turned DS into a proper southerner who thinks he is too good for the likes of our family, but he is my family, he is my DS FFS, and he doesn't think he is too good for anyone!!! In fact, he has no issues with his aunt and uncle.

My sis has her faults, yes, but she was there for me when I was growing up in a DV situation, we grew up in it together. She stuck up for me, and when my mother had mental health problems, my Dsis looked after me. There were a number of years when my Dsis took over all my mother's duties, so my bond with Dsis is stronger than it is with my other Dsis.

She is usually there for me, usually on the phone, and has helped me out when no one else did, because at the time, I had fallen out with Dsis down south and my mother. That was not so long ago, but I have since called a truce with my southern Dsis and mother, after my Dsis up north advised me to make up with my mother.

If your sister has made it clear she will not visit without her h, thats her tough shit.She does not get to inflict this big mouthed arsehole onto you.Not easy if youve had this sort of upbringing but your going to HAVE to stand up for yourself and your family, unless you want them treating your dcs this way too in a couple of years.

To be honest they both sound like bullys.Are you the youngest by any chance?

Dsis up North is going to buy the train ticket in advance next week, and I will have to decline her invitation before she pays for the ticket.

(She is waiting for payday.)

If I don't tell her before, I will feel too bad after she has paid for it, and will probably go because I feel too guilty to say No then.

What illness could possibly last from next week until mid february, when she is booking the tickets for?

dignified

Yes, I am the youngest. Is it that obvious?

Do you really want to have a relationship with someone who accuses your dp of being controlling over offering a meal, and slags your partner off cos hes encouraged your son to go to uni.Who the fuck do they think they are?
Honestly, they sound like loons!

Whether she looked after you or not (was she really " there for you " or just there ?)that was then and this is now.
You have your own family now, and they come first, especially of course your poor dp who has to put up with these ridiculous claims. They all sound extremeley toxic to me, and op, you dont owe them anything.

Shoot me down for this, but Dsis is going to email me the details of the train tickets and times, and I am so scared of disappointing her by saying I can't go, I am tempted to email her to explain I can't go.

I know it's a cop out, but I really really don't want to tell her on the phone, and I know the sooner, the better. BIL will probably slag me and DP off anyway because I don't go.

YANBU I would have nothing to do with him he sounds a poisonous pratt who's full of himself.
Call the day before and tell them you and DD have rampant D&V, They won't even try to convince you to come.

Hehe, yes it is op!
Your situation is similar to mine , i cut my loony family out as i dont need to be around that sort of toxic shit.Funnily enough i then married into another toxic loony family !
This sounds like its about boundaries, you sound like you find it really hard to stand up for yourself, and sorry if im wrong, but are you easily made to feel guilty too?

Your kind, loyal nature will make it easy for these people to bully you and take advantage, get tough ! Get some boundaries !
You dont need their aproval, your sister should still love you and want you in her life whether you disagree with big mouth or not,, and if she doesnt, she doesnt deserve a place in it quite frankly.

Be carefull not to fall for this " family is everything " crap, and that you must have never ending loyalty with these people.Most peoples familys are a pain in the arse !

Do it in whatever way is easiest for you op, i know its hard. You could just say that dp has booked 2 weeks of work to spoil you and help with the dcs ect, so thanks for the offer ect.
If you dont like confrontation just keep doing it whenever they want to make arrangements ie " Your rude obnoxious neice wants to visit and be rude to your dp, is that ok?"
" No were busy that week and besides weve got the shits ".
It will kick off eventually, as you well know, but just deal with this impending visit for now.

almostreal If I call them the day before, my Dsis will have already bought the train tickets.

I'll feel awful then. They want to give me a change of scene.

dignified You have somehow got into my head over the net. I am seriously impressed. You are totally spot on. I find boundaries very very difficult to draw up, even with friends and am driven by guilt much of the time. Dsis said she found my DP to be v controlling because he did the lions share of the housework and cooking when DD was newborn too and he ran around like a 'loon' getting everything done. DP doesn't usually run around like a loon, but I think he felt uncomfortable when they were here.

Any tips?

I hardly see Dsis because of the distance and having to afford a B&B usually, so I think once I have dealt with this, it will be a while before it comes up again.

BIL and Dsis would be very disappointed in me if I said I would rather spend the time with DP in any shape or form after they have gone to so much trouble.

I truly don't mean to pooh pooh your suggestions, even if it does appear that way.