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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be very shocked only 3% of unmarried parents stay together until child is 16!

671 replies

littlemoominmamma · 21/01/2010 08:02

3% is nothing!!! It is soooo sad. 1 out of every 3 couples have seperated before the child is 5yrs old

I am now glad that the tories are going to give married couples help.

OP posts:
lovelycoffee · 21/01/2010 19:24

So finally, to the OP - yes you are being unreasonable to be shocked because it shows how gullible you are to believe this rubbish!

Wastwinsetandpearls · 21/01/2010 19:24

Well I am liberally outraged [grin} I enjoy it though.

marantha · 21/01/2010 19:30

You don't have to be religious to marry, vinegartits

The whole point of marriage is that it provides a quick, easy way for those who WANT (not every cohabiting couple does) to be regarded as a couple to others (i.e. the law and so on)to do so. How, if a partner dies intestate, can the law give their cohabiting partner their estate UNLESS the deceased said they wanted to inherit in some way i.e. by marriage or explicitly saying so in a will?

There is no need to be violently opposed to it or be violently FOR it- it is what it is.

And what it is is no cast-iron guarantee of love, commitment or anything, (but if a person DOES decide to marry, they need to be aware of the seriousness of what they've undertaken).

MaggieNilAonSneachta · 21/01/2010 19:38

blueshoes

says "IMO insisting on marriage before having children with a man is a good way of sorting the wheat from the chaff. If he refuses, the relationship ends if the woman wants children. If he stays and marries, then at the very least he is prepared to put his money where his mouth is. That way, women don't waste time with a loser."

This is so true!!! I wish I'd known this or believed it or faced up to it when I was younger. Or had the confidence to sell my 'long' not short.

marantha · 21/01/2010 19:45

MaggieNilAonSneachta I'm not sure if I agree with this entirely.

If BOTH parties are ambivalent towards marriage, I don't see it as being indicative of lack of commitment.

If ONE wishes to marry, though, and the other won't, I do ask- why doesn't the relucatant partner marry their partner if committed to them? If marriage is just a piece of paper, why not marry them to make them happy?

And if marriage is more than a piece of paper, isn't it worrying that they won't put their money where their mouth is and actually declare to all and sundry that it's for life?

Wastwinsetandpearls · 21/01/2010 19:54

I know my man is wheat rather than chaff, I don't need to book a buffet to work that out.

Marriage is no indictator of the quality of the man. I lived with my ex husband for 10 years we had a huge wedding costing an obscene amount of money and were divorced before the year was out.

southeastastra · 21/01/2010 19:55

it's very easy to say 'put their money where there mouth is' but alot of people just cannot afford to get married. so you can do it for tuppence but surely if it's worth doing it's worth doing well.

Wastwinsetandpearls · 21/01/2010 19:56

Perhaps marantha the partner who wnats to marry respects the wishes of the person who does not want to marry. My dp knows it is nothing to do with a lack of commitment on my behalf.

southeastastra · 21/01/2010 19:56

their

marantha · 21/01/2010 19:58

southeastastra Not necessarily, marriage is a legal thing when all is said and done and just a means for a couple to declare their relationship formally.
Some people marry in their jeans- sure they DON'T need a marriage certificate to love one another BUT -if they wish to prove it to the outside world- they do.

southeastastra · 21/01/2010 19:59

actually i wonder how many couples would turn out if the government just did a mass wedding one day like they do in the far east (somewhere) bet you'd get tons of couples who just for reasons financial, or family troubles don't get round to it

lovelycoffee · 21/01/2010 20:01

Err isn't that the Moonies, marrying strangers?

marantha · 21/01/2010 20:03

For example, a long-term co-habiting couple who marry for inheritance tax reasons.

Wastwinsetandpearls · 21/01/2010 20:03

Well therein lies the differnce marantha, marriage to me is more than a legal thing. To me it is a lifeong commitment made before God from which there is no release. Unfortunately being young and not thinking straight lead me to waste my chance of getting it right.

I am lucky that I have found a man who loves me so much and is so committed he is willing to stay with me despite the fact I have commited a major fuck up.

southeastastra · 21/01/2010 20:09

oop well not marry a stranger, ykwim! out

marantha · 21/01/2010 20:23

Wastwinsetandpearls, I don't know what to say. I think you're being a bit hard on your self but then I am an atheist so -no offence meant- I don't know where you're coming from.

But given that the non-religious can marry, that not everybody in love/committment gets married and not everybody who marries is in love/committed, the only constant I see in all marriages in the UK is a legal aspect.

JeremyVile · 21/01/2010 20:24

Dodgy statistics aside, there is such room for differing requirements, aspirations within relationships that to try and boil it down to a distinction betweeen marrieds and unmarrieds just doesn't seem right.

I ahve split from my childs father, we were unmarried.
We didn't marry because its just something I have never, ever wanted.
Never dreamed of the wedding, never wanted my 'big day', I never viewed marriage as extra security or commitment, (dont we all just commit as much as the relationship requires/as much as we feel we want to? Because if the extra security comes from the piece of paper then that starts to seem like being bound when you would otherwise choose not to be) - I just dont relate to this desire for marriage, although I entirely respect those for whom it does mean something.

I was brought up by an unmarried couple (mother and step father), my married parents having split well before my 5th birthday. Perhaps this is why marriage feels meaningless to me?

Had I married xp (could have, he certainly wanted to) I know we would still have split up. May not have divorced though - therefore doing our bit for the pro-marriage stats!

Wastwinsetandpearls · 21/01/2010 20:43

I don't need understanding tbh I was trying to get across the point that there are probably a myriad of reasons why people choose to not get married. A lack of commitment may be one of those, but that is not the end of the story.

I don't really want or need legal protection, I am the major wage earner in my family and dp has a job that he could return to full time if we were to split up. I left my first marriage with nothing even though I could have left with a lot and managed to build a nice life for myself. I could do that again if I needed to, but I suspect I will not.

Dp and I do not have children together, for a mixture of health and religious reasons. I do think that dp has given up a lot to be with me and therefore we would like a child together. I have denied him a marriage and think it would be unfair to deny him a child.

If a child comes along I may then look at the legality of marriage again if we think it is an issue.

Blu · 21/01/2010 20:59

Upandrunning - I am not married and wilnot get married - no particular big rason, just won't. Ad I find it really patronising for you to assume that with a child, and a joint home (aka jpint massive debt!) I would treat my relationship flippantly and leave 'willy nilly'. Once you have a child and a home, and have a long-term committed relationship, you are jpintly committed and entangled in the same was as if you are married anyway.

And I absolutely do not subscribe to the 'make yourself happy, split up the family and leave' unless there is a seriously detrimental relationship going on. I don't think that long-term co-habiting couples are any more prone to that sort of thinking than married couples. otherwise, the divorce rate wouldn't be rising, would it????

These badly expressed, meaningless statistcs engender some very complacent thinking.

Blu · 21/01/2010 21:00

Oops, sorry for terrible typing!

ThingumyandBob · 21/01/2010 21:41

And when you google the title to find out the news paper that printed this attention grabbing pessimistic headline???.the winner is?????..you guessed it the Daily depressing isn?t out country crap Mail!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a surprise!

Couldn?t be arsed to read all of the thread, but who would at over 320 messages!!!

Like the thought that the stat was probably ?pulled out of my Tory arse though!

There?s even someone referring to the ?unmarried? referring to marriage as just a piece of paper indicating that being married stops you from being able to ?just do a runner?, how funny. My partner doesn?t rate marriage because he has seen plenty of married parents do a runner!! The unmarried indeed, are they like the unclean!?!

The article really doesn?t give clear stats or comparisons?..load of Daily Mail how can we depress the nation further twaddle?.

Don?t be shocked, just go and do some balanced research and don?t get sucked into dramatic sad facts printed by sensationalist newspapers cos they have far more depressing headlines than this one for you to believe!!!

blueshoes · 21/01/2010 21:50

twinset, to be absolutely brutal about it, if you are the main wage earner, it is not in your financial interests to get married.

If however you were the dependent partner who gave up your job to raise the children and run the home, then better get married if not for yourself then for your children, if the unthinkable happens.

Too many dependent women take a cavalier attitude about the legal and financial side of things by not marrying and let men get away with, under current law, murder on a break up.

Wastwinsetandpearls · 21/01/2010 22:02

lol at it is not in your financial interests to get married!

I did give up work to look after my dd who was born just after our wedding. I actually gave up work to get married and care for my husband and our new impending family. I did this thinking that my husband was as commited to our relationship as I was. He wasn't and the following year he was living the lifestyle of a batchelor millionaire and I was homeless. I didn't take a penny beyond two years of very low maintenance ( in comparison to his wages) so my dd could be fed and clothed. As soon as I no longer needed the maintenance I stopped taking it. I clawed my way back to having a nice life and then met dp and it all became rather rosy, until we tried to relocate in a property crash.

Perhaps I am cavalier, perhaps I am daft but I would like to support myself as much as I am able to. Dp is of a similar mind. I am however quite obsessive about needing to work.

blueshoes · 21/01/2010 22:11

Well, you have pride and self-belief, twinset.

I am firmly of the belief that a woman must never be totally financially dependent on a man (and vice versa). Never de-skill yourself from the workplace, keep a toe in if possible. It is good insurance.

You were able to claw yourself back up which is admirable. But a woman of less substance with no marketable skills would need the legal protection of maintenance and child support for much longer.

Wastwinsetandpearls · 21/01/2010 22:15

Totally, I have a lot of hangups about money tbh. Wealth makes me very uncomfortable and looking back now I can see that a hairy liberal socialist like me was never going to last being married into a family of money obsessed capitalist Daily Mail Readers. It all seems so silly now but I have a beautiful dd now and I would never have met dp if I didn't have my dd.