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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to expect a four year old to be allowed to wear their PE kit under their clothes?

92 replies

tispity · 19/01/2010 12:52

this is our first experience of the state school system as dh is at prep school but it has emerged that some dcs have been doing this in ds' reception class. the school sent us a letter to say that they will suspend any child who does not bring their kit in a PE bag. ds really does not get sweaty - as is prob the case with most four year olds doing indoor PE

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mathanxiety · 19/01/2010 22:27

But they wouldn't have to practice and teachers wouldn't have to help, if they didn't have to dress or undress to that extent at school. There are plenty of parents who don't teach their children to brush their teeth or keep their hair neat, but schools don't approach this on a daily or a bi-weekly basis.

Dressing and undressing are skills that are not necessarily part of what schools should be teaching, but they are, unfortunately, on the curriculum because of the uniform inflexibility.

When it comes to coats or jackets, I have seen my own DCs' former teachers say breezily to the parent or caregiver who picked up a child "X needs a bit of practice with putting on his/her coat" and lo and behold, after a few exposures to the cold outside without a coat on, the child learned to do for himself. And no more input of time or energy was required by the teacher. Children with special needs were helped to a certain extent, but it was expected that their parents would provide whatever therapy or practice was needed to help them become better at self care.

Littlefish · 20/01/2010 11:40

That's fine if you are in the sort of school where parents "provide whatever therapy or practice was needed to help them become better at self care." Unfortunately in the school where I teach, we have many children who are 2 or 3 years behind where they should be with their language development and self care skills because the have simply never been taught. What are we supposed to do? Just let the child carry on in the same way, or intervene?

mrsflux · 20/01/2010 12:24

As a teacher of y6 I can not tell you how many shoe laces I have tied and coat zips I have had to unstick etc.
I don't do little ones for many reasons but no teacher is going to let a reception child wander about half naked or with a jumper or t shirt stuck on their head! They will get help if needed. You couldn't teach a class where half of them have t shirts stuck on their large heads!
Also you can't realistically exclude a child for wearing extra layers. I've had kids be physically aggressive to me and no exclusion so your school are being very silly!
Extra layers are silly too as little ones often don't realise they are too hot until they feel sick and a teacher says take off your sweatshirt it's July!

tispity · 20/01/2010 13:12

yr 6? i seriously hope it is no longer an issue by then! i really don't understand why they bother making shoes with laces when the velcro ones work perfectly well; there again, i have yet to convince dh of that too!

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mrsflux · 20/01/2010 13:32

No! Velcro is the reason why they don't learn to tie their shoes!

SE13Mummy · 20/01/2010 13:41

Velcro is fine when they're 4 or 5 but annoying when they're 10 or 11 and sitting on the carpet playing with their shoe fastenings; the majority of children should be able to tie laces by this age but if they've never had the oppportunity to learn they never will.

You'd be surprised how many Y6s need help with zips buttons etc.!

Lasvegas · 20/01/2010 13:42

At DD' private school the first 3 years (infants) wear PE kit with blazer on top to school on the 2 days they have PE on other days they wear normal (rather formal uniform). This is great as little kids don't have to get changed for PE.

tispity · 20/01/2010 13:42

but why can't they stay in velcro... forever? it could be disguised to look OK for most age groups

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islandofsodor · 20/01/2010 13:43

The shoe laces thing is annoying. dd was able to tie hers at age 4 becasue her jazz shoes had laces. Then she went into the next size and they only had slip on ones in stock.

All her school shoes are velcro, you can't get laces and so now she has forgotten to tie them (age 8)

mathanxiety · 20/01/2010 15:17

Self care is restricted to dressing, though. It doesn't include any other important aspects of self care. You have no idea if the children are being taught those other aspects at home or getting the chance to practice their dressing skills either. Dressing and undressing are only a small part of the self care picture.

Some children do not have the manual dexterity needed for buttons, some are unable to tie laces because of a disability. Putting velcro into a shirt or wearing velcro shoes speeds up the changing process, but they are adaptations, not skill-learning -- a lot of parents of SN children resort to this sort of adaptation. DCs' school recommended velcro shoes for all the younger grades even before the change in the uniform policy, because they made things easier for everyone, students and teachers alike.

Not every child with SN has the same needs, and how do teachers keep track of who needs exactly what in terms of instruction in self care? I suspect there's a lot of helping and not so much actual teaching or training, given the time constraints and the number of children involved. If you have a school where there's a significant number of children with SNs or who can't dress themselves for whatever reason, all the more reason to waive the changing requirement.

Having the children all change together at the same time just provides an opportunity for some to feel smug and superior, to tease the slower or clumsier ones or those who obviously have mummy do most of the dressing at home ("babies"), both verbally and by hiding or stealing gear. It's an occasion where embarrassment is guaranteed for some children.

Are schools worried that the majority of children will grow to adulthood and still be unable to dress themselves unless they intervene at an early age to save them from their lazy parents? Most children have the ability and the desire to dress themselves and do self care by age 8 at the latest.

tispity · 20/01/2010 20:20

"Having the children all change together at the same time just provides an opportunity for some to feel smug and superior, to tease the slower or clumsier ones or those who obviously have mummy do most of the dressing at home ("babies"), both verbally and by hiding or stealing gear. It's an occasion where embarrassment is guaranteed for some children."
that sounds terrible you know - i now have visions of my ds being picked on by others in his class. the baby comment has already come up because he used to get upset when i left him in the mornings. very different to dd

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SE13Mummy · 20/01/2010 20:59

I can't imagine that many teachers would let children, regardless of their age, taunt others because they were unable to do their buttons etc.

My DD's class came out of Reception in an ecstatic mood today... they'd put on their whole PE kit (shorts, t-shirt and pumps) for PE. The excitement was similar to that at realising Father Christmas had brought DD some blutak (she's easily pleased). Apparently those who could get changed alone did so, some were helped, some were shownhow to do tricky things and others just waited on the carpet because they didn't have their kits (they did join in though).

Pushmeinthepool · 20/01/2010 21:58

How strange that they are threatening suspension! It's not ideal for a child to wear a PE kit under their clothes, but it's hardly the crime of the century.

mathanxiety · 20/01/2010 23:06

They don't taunt right there, ime. They wait until they're outside playing and then it comes up out of earshot of the teachers.

tispity · 21/01/2010 09:30

"They don't taunt right there, ime. They wait until they're outside playing and then it comes up out of earshot of the teachers." a sobering thought indeed

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mathanxiety · 22/01/2010 16:46

Bullies are nothing if not devious, Tispity.

SE13Mummy · 22/01/2010 17:26

If children are taunting others and no adult is within earshot then they need to be helped to tell an adult so that all children are told that it is unacceptable. If no-one tells then it can't be dealt with and the taunting children will go through school and life thinking it's acceptable to tease others for things they can't manage.

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