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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MENNNNNNNNNN!!!!!

66 replies

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 00:51

Sorry for shoiuting in the title!!!!

I have been trying for weeks to get DS2 into an earlier sleep pattern, so this evening DP comes in and it is 10pm, DS2 is settling down so he starts fucking playing with him!!!
It is now 1am and DP is getting annoyed that DS2 is still awake, i keep putting him on the sofa to settle and when he cries dp hugs and kisses him talking away.

So poor DS2 is now over tired and also confused because mummy is laying him down and daddy is hugging him arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I have put him in bed and told DP to bloody stay there and awake until DS2 settles cos i am having a coffee.

OP posts:
Morloth · 19/01/2010 10:03

Could your DP not keep DS1 entertained while you settled DS2 earlier in the evening in your room, then you lock the door to your room when it is DS1's bedtime so that he can't disturb DS2?

I know there are issues, but this isn't working either? Poor DS2 must be out of his mind with exhaustion - how late does he sleep?

tootiredtothink · 19/01/2010 10:04

Could you put ds2 into your bed while giving ds1 something fun to do - with the promise of having some quality time with just you when ds2 is asleep?

It'll probably take ds2 a few nights to get used to going down on his own but it'll be well worth it.

Then, when ds1 is asleep you can put ds2 in room.

Ds1 must resent the fact that his younger brother is staying up later than him? I know mine would.

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 10:09

DP is not here all the time so him sitting with ds1 really isn't an option . I know it must feel awful for him to go to bed before ds2, but to date it has been the only way of getting them both to go to sleep. DS2 is in my bedroom anyway because he cannot share ds1's bedroom even though it is big enough because of ds1's behaviour.

I guess this all started because DS1's tantrums woke ds2 up many times and i would have to hold him to get him back to sleep because of the shouting from ds1.

Morloth, I normally get DS2 up around 8 because I always think it will help to get him to go to sleep earlier. But today I have let him sleep, dp is still asleep with him.

DS1 is at school and i am having a much needed coffee.

My plan/hope is that with an accompanying letter from the CP who comes to see DS1 that i can get a 3 bedroom place and then can instill bedtimes for DS2.

TBH I am totally exhausted, and pissed off today.

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ChazsBarmyArmy · 19/01/2010 10:10

Could you get a travel cot for DS2 and put it in the living room? That way DH might recognise that DS2 is in bed and not available for playing? I sympathise with your problem. We used to live in a one bed flat with 2 ds and I used to put ds1 to sleep in the bedroom and have ds2 on the sofa bed in the living room if he was unsettled. I would then put him to bed after Ds1 dropped off. DH didn't get in from work until 2.30am so sometimes he slept on the sofa bed in the living room rather than disturb us all.
I think next time DH wakes DS2 up you should just go to bed and let him sort it out!

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 10:15

I really know it must seem very bizarre having DS2 up later than DS1, if i don't get DS1 into bed by 8.30/ 9 the latest then he will refuse to go to bed.

It has been a long hard struggle to get DS1 to go to bed at this time but we have got somewhere at last, when i have made plans in the past to do something with ds1 you can guarantee that he will do everything in his power to keep ds2 awake, this has been witnessed by so many people that in rl people have seen it happening and now understand why i have this situation...

OP posts:
TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 10:15

I really know it must seem very bizarre having DS2 up later than DS1, if i don't get DS1 into bed by 8.30/ 9 the latest then he will refuse to go to bed.

It has been a long hard struggle to get DS1 to go to bed at this time but we have got somewhere at last, when i have made plans in the past to do something with ds1 you can guarantee that he will do everything in his power to keep ds2 awake, this has been witnessed by so many people that in rl people have seen it happening and now understand why i have this situation...

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TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 10:17

Chaz, I was tempted to get the travel cot out again just so that DS2 learnt it was bedtime as he sits on the sofa during the day. During the day if he has a nap he gets into my bed and off he goes....

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MoreCrackThanHarlem · 19/01/2010 10:27

Ok, been thinking about this.

I think 8.30 is early for an 11yo to go to bed. I expect he feels very resentful, I'm sure my dd would if she were being sent to bed early whilst a younger sibling had mummy and daddy time on the sofa downstairs.

Have you tried explaining to ds1 that he can stay up later than his brother if he goes to bed quietly?
Does he have a dx of sn? I would imagine so if, at 11, he is tantruming every night. How is his behaviour at school?

Sorry, don't really know the back story, he sounds like an unhappy boy

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 10:38

MCTH He has ODD - oppositional defiance disorder, it is something drs and psychologists have toyed with the idea of for 3 yrs and have now finally given his behaviour a name. So in that sense i have to keep the routine for him as strict as possible.

I tried putting DS2 to bed earlier and letting DS1 stay up but when he goes to the bathroom/bed, he will always go and disturb ds2, the only thing i could do would be to stand guard at my bedroom door tp prevent this.

At school his behaviour is fine, the thing with ODD is it mmanifests itself in such a way that it is either apparent at home or in school...the 2 places children go where there is authority.

The bedtimes/behaviour issues with DS1 have not only been happening since DS2 was born they have been since he was around 4....so whilst i would agree he may feel resentful towards DS2 it is not the cause of his behaviour.

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TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 10:42

A bit of what a site says about ODD.....

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a disorder where children have disruptive and oppositional behaviour that is particularly directed towards authority figures, such as parents or teachers

Children with ODD are constantly defiant, hostile and disobedient. They don?t like responding to instructions or taking orders from others, and they actively refuse simple requests.

Sometimes they eagerly blame others for their own mistakes, can lose their temper easily, and act in an angry, resentful or touchy manner.

All children occasionally react in this way on a bad day or if upset by a situation, and many teenagers go through troublesome times. But children with oppositional defiant disorder are like this all the time, making them very hard to deal with.

The key behavioural symptoms of ODD are negative, hostile and defiant behaviour. For ODD to be diagnosed, symptoms have to have been present for at least six months and involve four or more of the following:

often loses temper
often argues with adults
often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults? requests or rules
often deliberately annoys people
often blames others for his mistakes or misbehaviour
often touchy or easily annoyed by others
often angry and resentful
often spiteful or vindictive.
To be classified as ODD, the behaviour also has to have caused a significant degree of disturbance to home, social or school life.

How does it cause problems?
For parents, having a child with ODD can be very difficult. ODD children can vary from being mildly oppositional to always being hostile.

A child with ODD will:

deliberately take the most difficult path, eg to say ?no? on principle
enjoy challenging and arguing with people
refuse to do what he?s told.
It's common for a child with ODD to blame everyone else for his problems, and at his worst he can be angry, spiteful and vindictive.

These types of problem behaviours are typically directed towards parents and teachers, plus others in authority. Coping with a consistently disruptive attitude can be extremely frustrating and physically, mentally and emotionally exhausting.

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fiveisanawfullybignumber · 19/01/2010 13:28

I really hope you can het the help that you need, and a bigger house. Feel for you!
Ds2 may have a touch of this at time but not every night. It's a shame that portage don't see older children, a lot of DS2's destructive & argumenative behavior was challenged and slowly modified over a no of years with their help.
Although we do say he'd argue with a signpost at times. I'm forever saying, if you argue back or have nothing nice to say I don't want to hear it, your bedroom is the best place for you. After a stomp up the stairs he usualy takes 5-10 mins to chill out and comes back down to appologise. Although sometimes he'll come back down to keep arguing, off up he stomps again!
I know it's positively frowned upon here, but you need one of these. (((hug)))
Mitigating circumstaces emoticon please???

MoreCrackThanHarlem · 19/01/2010 14:03

Gosh, it sounds terribly stressful for all concerned.
Am intrigued wrt the difference in behaviour at home and school, though. I know of children who have behaviour issues in school and not at home, but I have never come across a reverse situation before ( I am a HLTA), especially when the behaviours sound this extreme.

Have you been given strategies to manage these episodes?

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 14:31

fiaabn Sometimes a frowned upon hug is a wonderful thing! I wish it was as easy as telling ds1 to go to his room, but this is normally the start of a battle i don't want repeatedly

MCTH TBH I do not understand it fully myself. I am trying to and i am forever looking for more strategies to deal with these "episodes". It is extremely stressful at times, other times i can just let it go over my head to an extent iyswim? i have to or i would be forever in a battle/challenge.

The only way i can describe it is, if i let ds1 get up when he wants, do what he wants, eat what he wants, get dressed/washed if/when he wants, wait on him hand and foot, don't ask him to do anything or speak to him then all is fine. But the second i say something as simple as "DS1 can you come here a second" this is a trigger for him to have a tantrum. That is exactly what happened on boxing day, i called him because i wanted him to help me on a game i was playing and because i said "can you come here a minute" he went into a rage screaming at me that i was not letting him play a game, when in fact i was tryin to get him to play a game so when he came into me shouting i did then say "for your outburst you are not playing your game now"

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CardyMow · 19/01/2010 18:34

MCTH - THIS is exactly why my DD doesn't get the help she so desperately needs (am now wondering about ODD, she has an informal dx of asd, is only just being referred to CAMHS by school at 11.10yo). Because (up until now) she has behaved (relatively well) at school, but is EXACTLY like this at home. Yesterday DD had to be restrained by me AND DP as she had kicked holes in 2 of my doors and punched a hole in the (plasterboard) wall because SHE took too long eating her breakfast which meant I had to rush her to get ready so as not to make her brothers late. Which it did. It's only NOW with the transition to Secondary school that her 'difficulties' are becoming more apparent to the school, as it's happening there now.

TheLadyEvenstar · 19/01/2010 19:20

LoudLass, feel free to email me if you [email protected]

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CardyMow · 19/01/2010 19:44

Thank you. Have to go and wash up now, but will be back later.

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