Please convince me that the Tories WON'T create wider divisions btween the rich and poor and haves and have nots?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm not great at politics but I am under the imptression that things like inheritance tax and tax breaks for married people are going to widen the gap between the rich and poor?

Am, I wrong? Would anyone like to explain how the Tories would improve my lot as a single mum. Would they find me a nice man to marry for example?

The rationale behind cutting public sector wages is that those wages are paid by taxpayers.

"Figures published by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show that average annual earnings of public sector workers rose to £22,405 last year ? compared with £20,988 paid to the average private sector worker...

...This has come despite a decline in productivity. According to the ONS, public sector productivity fell by 3.4% in the 10 years from 1997 ? compared with a rise of 28% in the private sector over the same period."

Here.

It is a tax relief. I don't know how child tax credit works, but it's based on you getting back tax you are entitled to. Generally through working.

It's a great incentive to reward those who do go to work and it provides an essential top-up for many. We'd be struggling to pay our rent without it.

So how are people who have never worked or payed into that tax pot claiming it? Genuine question btw. I claim benefits through my childs disability so I have no pitchfork to speak of

scarletlilybug - but if you think about who is included in those stats, it makes sense. Nurses, doctors, teachers and so on. Most of the cleaning etc is outsourced to the private sector. Really I'm shocked the gap isn't bigger, but then I suppose the top earners affect it.

Also, you have to remember that low paid workers in the public sector tend to be slightly better paid and have better conditions, just because the public sector isn't quite as exploitative.

Ah, yes, Rhu, and I see the tack they are trying to take. By creating the paradigm that tax credits are benefits, not a state-provided top up to avoid their having to force employers to pay a living wage, they can start to demonise all who claim them as scroungers.

And so have a better chance of getting rid of them entirely as soon as they can convince people that the working poor deserve what they get because, in their minds, all poor people - working or not - are poor due to their own personal failings.

I have not said anything thesecondcoming, i think I told you take no notice...if you meant angryfrom my place that is...

thesecondcoming - tell me about it. As soon as people learn you are getting benefits (but they somehow manage to claim tax credits and child benefit without seeing themselves as claiming benefits) they think you are public property and they can tell you how to live your life. I think people like that would be happy with the workhouse being brought back tbh.

there was nowt wrong with the workhouse well it looks nice on the mitchell and kenyon docus anyway

My post about public secor wages versus private sector wages was in response to this:

"What frustrates me is people saying they want to cut public sector wages but not private sector wages."

Public sector wages - paid from taxes. Cut public secor wages = cut public expenditure = reduce budget deficit. Thats's the reasoning.

As long as they don't expect taxpayers to pay for said sacks!

I don't see tax credits as benefits. I think they should be targettted at the lowest income families. I think it's ridiculous that families with incomes up to around £60000 can claim, and a luxury we can't afford, particularly in the current economic climate.

I do see tax credits as benefits, and think that's a good thing, maybe if people realise they are getting benefits themselves they won't moan about other people so much.

They can claim no more than they did before on married persons allowance (or whatever it was the replacement for) infact they claim back less. People on over 60k pay tax aswell

.

Could we colour co-ordinate the sacks? I can't be stepping over badly dressed poor people on the way into Starbucks.

I come from Manchester too angry!

Before tax credits we never used to claim anything because there was nothing to claim.

Now at least we get this top up and it really does help. I take the point that employers should pay a fair wage. dh is working over 40 hours a week for just over minimum wage, the only way he can top that up is with overtime, but after 40 hours a week who the hell wants to work overtime?

However tax credits don't encourage employers not to pay decent wages, they wouldn't pay decent wages anyhow. They do help us though.

I've never voted for New Labour despite being from the working class and being ideologically socialist.
I am firmly of the opinion that John Smith's death heralded the end of Keir Hardie's "Labour" party when New Labour took control.
Policy after policy have confirmed my view.

This year benefits payments are due to exceed income tax receipts.
Ideologically welfare was a helping hand not a right to live by in my view.
Working together should be for the greater good and definitely not scrounging of others.

Quote "In 2009/10, the Treasury is expecting to take in £140.5 billion in gross income tax receipts. Social security benefits are projected to be £164.7 billion."

This upon a Trillion Pound deficit because of New Labour supporting "The City"

Seriously people need to wake up.

The level of debt "new" labour has created is not sustainable.
I have many other gripes with the policy of "New" Labour, but for now I will leave it at this.

I always said I hated B'Lair more than Bush because at least with Bush they got "what it
said on the tin" Not so with "New" Labour

I am a born and bred Labour supporter and love many of the things brought in by the Labour party, such as the NHS. I went to a state school and then on to University -which at the time was free. However, a decade on and I am not too happy with the state of society. I am appalled at the lack of social mobility and the fact that the welfare state, designed as a safety net for the desperate has become a lifestyle choice for the idle.

I do think in the time that Labour have been in power many things are improved - the NHS in particular stands out. But now as a household that pays 40% tax, and that may pay 50% in the future, I'm not sure I feel that the money is being spent well. How much of the social mobility issue and the gap btw the rich and the poor is down to the government and how much just changing times?

It feels as if in all this time Labour should have done more. Or done things differently. The main thrust of socialism is to redistribute money from the rich to the poor. I think the noughties has shown that as a blanket policy - this just does not work. It disenfranchises the poor, and seems to have created an underclass without hope of change.

Public spending will have to be reduced, all the parties agree on that. DC has said he will not cut the NHS and has pledged to maintain Surestart too. Will he keep those promises? I dont really trust him, and I also agree with an earlier post that Eton educated toffs are out of touch with the reality of daily life for the rest of the country.

Raising income tax is a drop in the ocean. At some point... 45% or above it does become a disincentive. Those paying may move or they may simply look into tax avoidance schemes. In any case the number of people earning £150,000 or more as a percentage of the population is so small it doesnt generate that much revenue.

What it basically seems to come down to is that in the UK we expect Swedish levels of welfare and services but only want to pay USA levels of tax!

If democracy really changed anything they would do away with it.

Have been at Options evening, so need to pick up on a few points.

I would like to see the benefits bill reduced, but am not sure how. I think some kind of work in return for the benefits where possible might be a start. I would also like to see an end to the culture of entitlement to benefits as some of my students didn't want to work as they knew they could claim. I did say that none of the sacred cows like the NHS or benefits should be exempt from being cut/seeing where savings could be made. I think we need to examine the overseas aid budget and where it goes

I didn't advocate cutting private wages as that is outwith the remit and power of the government. However, they do have the say in public sector pay and could choose not to pay increases, or indeed, to follow the lead of the RoIreland, and all public sector workers take a 10% cut.

Income tax will need to rise, probably by about 5% all round, but beyond that, as nkud says, it is a disincentive to work.