to think that size 14 models are NOT plus size they are just NORMAL!

[mamazon]

Most models are around 6ft. for their height being a size 14/16 is perfect for their body.

they aren't "plus size" they just aren't underweight.

I dont think it is a great thing that a magazine has dedicated an issue to plus size models. I find it depressing thaht society has such a scewed vision of beauty that a girl that is in total perfect proportion for her body is considered only beautiful enough for a special fat issue rather than the usual mainstream version.

im actaully getting a bit annoyed at the constant use of the term plus size for normal women. they aren't! I am 6'1 and a size 24/26. I am a plus size person. as in i am outside the normal range for clothing and sizing.
someone with not an inch of excess fat on them isn't.

Now do not get me wrong, i do not want to see more Beth Ditto front covers.
What i want is for the media and fashion industry to stop making normal healthy women feel that they are anything but that. why does it have to be a special healdine grabbing edition of the magazine just because they use women who do not have their ribs poking out of their skin?

There are too many overweight people around and it is not healthy. I think in the case of models most of them are too thin. I think size 8-10-12 is ideal depending on your structure.

And yet I am a size 14/16 on my bottom half and well within my bmi

Oh come on, size 14 being described as "plus size" is fair enough. Even size 12, unless very tall, is suggestive of a bit of plumpness - nothing wrong with that, it often looks better than skin and bone, but since excess weight isn't especially healthy why get moralistic about it and criticise perfectly sensible labels? Women in the western world eat too much fat - don't that dictate our vocabulary. And girls who are size 12 or 14 will have high self esteem if they are treated properly by the real people in their lives so there's no need bring anorexia into it.

le queen - that's why they have changed the sizes to make them feel better - why esle?

I used to read urbanbaby.com which is a New York version of MN.

I will never forget being told I was overweight by a number of people: I'm 5' 7", 10 stone and a size 10-12 (UK). People always describe me as slim. But in NY and also the west coast of course, they have even higher standards. I do feel people are a lot more relaxed in the UK, having lived in NY for a decade.

i am 5 foot 8 and last year weighed 10 stone - i was told on HERE not to wear a sleeveless dress !

since i have lost weight so i do wear one now!

Models are thin because designers send out sample garments for magazine shoots and the like. These fit the average model, i.e. a tall size 8 girl. A model that does not fit samples will not get much work.

As for women wanting to see "real" models, well, sorry, but the clothes do not sell as well.

When I worked in the Fashion Industry (left it in 2002) The Fit Models we used had to be a perfect size 12. Our regular model was 38" bust 27.5" waist and 38" hip, she was about 5'6 tall. Figure wise she was a healthy looking normal woman, but would probably be deemed as a bit dumpy now.

I think at the time, Top Shop, who we supplied insisted we do all their fits on a size 10, I expect 8 years on, they've probably gone down to a size 8.

mamazon - my thoughts exactly.

Bonsoir: "Models are thin because clothes look better on tall and very thin because clothes look better on tall thin girls - their curves don't get in the way of the cut of the clothes."

What a load of old bollocks. Women with curves look far better, sexier, more interesting, more attractive than the walking coat hangers you see parading the catwalks. A woman's curves give shape to the clothes she wears, whereas they just hang off models by comparison.

However, I do agree with you that "model" and "woman" do not mean the same thing, body-wise. A "woman" looks like a woman, whereas a "model" looks like an elongated mosquito.

As a general rule tall and thin and shapeless will not get in the way of the clothes, but curves in the wrong place will make clothes look dreadful. Designers and stylists just don't want to risk getting the 'wrong' shape do they insist on the shape that can wear anything. Tall and thin happens to be that.

For me the (plus-size or otherwise) bottom line is, should commercial industries take more responsibility for the effect they have on society? If they should (as I naively believe)then obviously it's not good to be labelling slim women "plus-size" - the bloomin' cheek! Being fairly fat myself I just think if they are plus-size then just lift me out with a crane, why don't you.

But if their job is all about achieving excellence according to the internal standards of the industry - aesthetic, economic - etc. etc. then well size 14 is as big as you're going to get and at least these girls are getting work.

My daughter is 22 months now and I just hope by the time she is grown we will both be nice healthy weights and able to enjoy MTV or Vogue regardless of where they're at with the body shape issue, because it's dangerous to give popular culture too much power over what you do with your "one wild and precious life" (thanks, Mary Oliver).

My niece has no 'curves' just now. Nor will my daughter.

And again, I think labelling a healthy person as unsexy, unattractive, uninteresting, ugly, etc. based solely on their size, be it fat, average or thin, is sad and wrong.

If I came on here and wrote: larger people are not as good looking, attractive, sexy and uninteresting as thin ones there'd be a fucking cyber riot.

But it's okay to do so to tall, thin people.

Nice.

Perhaps it's time designers started to design clothes for people with different body shapes than tall and thin then. How many basic body shapes do you think there would be? 5? 6? 4? Pear shaped, Hour glass, Ironing board (me), Triangular, what else?
Then you could have different models for the different clothes, designed for those body shapes that most people ACTUALLY are, not just the uber-thin and tall ones. And the clothes would look good on the right body shapes.

Too simplistic, I'm sure - or perhaps too complicated. Almost certainly not going to happen, anyway.

expat, there might well be a cyber-riot, but out there in the actual world there is evidenced research that thin people get better jobs, are paid more, are treated with more respect than thin ones.

In MN land, size should not be an issue for respect - indeed, I could be a size zero six-footer for all anyone knows - perhaps this is why so many of the larger people feel free here to express feelings about the wider culture of thin-worship that we are inhibited from expressing when people can actually see our size.

Not that I am in any way supporting use of derogatory terms for the thin. But I'm sorry, I simply do not regard 'thin name-calling' as equivalent to 'fat name-calling' because there is not the same imbalance of power in the real world. In the same way that calling a white person 'whitey' is unpleasant and unnecessary, in a culture where white people retain the social, political and cultural power, it is not the same as calling a non-white person by a racially-derogatory name.

first para, that would be 'than thin ones', obviously.

aargh 'than fat ones'.

'But I'm sorry, I simply do not regard 'thin name-calling' as equivalent to 'fat name-calling' because there is not the same imbalance of power in the real world. In the same way that calling a white person 'whitey' is unpleasant and unnecessary, in a culture where white people retain the social, political and cultural power, it is not the same as calling a non-white person by a racially-derogatory name.'

Well, I'm not white. And I think calling anyone a term based on their race is the same be it 'whitey' or the n or p words.

A person willing to use a derogatory term based on such a quality is a person willing to use a term based on such a quality.

And no, I don't equate 'fat' name calling on the same level as terms I've been called for being brown or when I had my maiden surname.

An obese person can lose weight. Even through surgery, there's that option.

I'll never be able to change the colour of my skin, hair or eyes (not that I'd want to, anyhow).

An older person has no chance of changing their age.

A gay person cannot change his/her sexual orientation.

It's not the same thing.

IMO.

I say sack all the editors of the women's magazines, they're all women, and they're all responsible for the size issue nonsense. probably sat there in their size 16 Joseph slacks with a menthol enviously glaring at the skinny 'slebs. I mean, why doesnt Closer magazine just rename itself GET SKINNY NOW YOU FAT PUDDINGS! 78 out of 90 pages in a recent issue were all FAT FAT FAT AND GET SKINNY related articles.

Put some men in charge, supply and demand my bottom, at least men realise we're not actually that interested in Hannah Waterman's Amazing Weight Loss ...oh and here's her video on how to lose your own lardy ass. Trash mags have been sprinkling this glitter in the snow for over a decade now, must be time for a change.

I agree with mamzon, I'm 5'10" and vary between size 10 to size 14. Size 10 when shopping in expensive shops that set their ranges to flatter their customers, and size 14 when I've not been exercising enough. But even at size 14 I am considered slim by most people as you can carry weight more easily when you are tall. So saying plus size is laughable really. Larger than usual model maybe, but that's another matter. Plus size to me is Evans, size 18 and up.

But then I find catwalk type fashion very strange looking and actually quite laughable, and slightly wonder whether it is just an attempt by ugly little men to make women look ridiculous. I think that tall thin models are just lazily easy to design for, because that's the current status quo. I can quite see why you might want a standard sized model for all your clothes, but surely any standard would do?

I am very tall, but very small-framed and would look decidedly chunky at a size 14/16 -just because you are tall doesn't necessarily mean that you have big bones. For me at a size 16 I would be plus-size because my BMI would be way above 25.

Totally agree that well-cut clothes look better on a woman with a few curves to show off though! Thank goodness for chicken fillets I say!

agree with expat