To demand a harder hitting campaign to promote breastfeeding?

[WashwithCare]

I?m sometimes taken aback to hear mothers gave up bf-ing because it was sore, or involved feeding for hours at a time? What did they expect? What did they think newborns do? Didn?t they imagine that anything chewing on your nipple for 10 hours a day was going to nip a bit?

But then again, who can blame them? Breastfeeding for the minimum WHO recommendation of 2 years is practically unheard of. Nearly everyone will tell you it?s absolutely your decision, and fine to stop. The public info campaign is fluffy and vague about the benefits, and the baby on the follow-on formula milk box looks decidedly peachy. Lots of women are so mis-informed, they believe that formula is almost as good as breastmilk.

Is it time for something a little harder hitting? How about this for a tv ad; (scene 1) mum feeding her newborn a bottle telling her mate how hard bf-ing was. Caption: Breastfeeding Hurts. (scene 2) same mum, but now older, bald and sick, hugs toddler. Caption: So does breast cancer. FADE to caption: "Breastfeeding significantly Reduces your Life Time Risk of Breast Cancer". Followed by cheesy inspirational slogan.

I for one am well aware of the criticism this study has received, but I do remember reading something about 3 years ago that suggested a possible link between PCOS and breastfeeding problems. I do think it serves well as a cautionary tale to the more smug b/feeders out there that there is much that we don't know, and problems cannot always be dismissed as "not trying hard enough" or even "not enough support".

Starwoman Creditcrunchie !

Aren't the maths quite simple? If you get bf-ing rates of 98% in some countries, and only 50% of mums in the UK manage to establish breastfeeding, wouldn't that suggest, that of the half who didn't feed, only 4% of them would have failed to establish feeding in the other more bf-friendly culture..

So roughly for every 20 mums in the UK who don't manage to BF, only 1 wouldnt' have been bf-ing in a more supportive culture.

That's disgraceful, I think. It annoys me when pple taught about a pro-choice approach and the mum's right to choose. A woman who chooses to deprive her child of breastmilk (for all these personal reasons that can't be mentioned) to my mind is shackled and subjugated.

If you are poor and badly educated, you are more likely to FF, smoke and be obese, and your chidren are also more likely to smoke and be obese too.

How people can hold these sorts of "choices" up as a glorious expression of free will, rather than a shocking example of how we as a society have let down mothers and their babies, is tbh, quite beyond me.

Makeyer- I agree entirely.

WashwithCare Fri 15-Jan-10 09:22:46
"Aren't the maths quite simple? If you get bf-ing rates of 98% in some countries, and only 50% of mums in the UK manage to establish breastfeeding, wouldn't that suggest, that of the half who didn't feed, only 4% of them would have failed to establish feeding in the other more bf-friendly culture.."

Having grown up and lived as an adult in one of the countries with a very high breastfeeding rate, I am not sure the maths are quite that simple. As I said in a previous post, my experience leads me to believe that the statistics are slightly skewed as a Swedish woman who has given top-ups would be far more likely to describe herself as breastfeeding. I know no women in Sweden who would not describe themselves as having breastfed. But if you look at what they are actually doing, a lot of them were topping up feeds or letting their husband give a nightly bottle when they needed to sleep. For them to answer "mixed feeding" in a survey, they would have had a far larger proportion of non-breast.

But it's not just the statistics that are affected by this attitude. There is a very established view in this country, that if you do give in and give a top-up, you have then compromised your breastfeeding- so you might as well give it up altogether. All my British friends who gave up breastfeeding did it because an illness or a family crisis or pure exhaustion meant they were not able to breastfeed for a day or two. Of course, that might have affected their milk supply, of course, they might not have been able to work it up again. But if you start from the assumption that that's what's going to happen, then you will give up.

I otoh (being Swedish) assumed that I would carry on breastfeeding even though ds had to be removed from me for a couple of days at a couple of weeks old. I really don't think any of my British friends would have had the confidence, because it is so contrary to official advice given in this country. Swedish women are far more likely to take a laidback approach to this.

But the biggest factor, surely, is that Sweden has a very long established tradition not only of very generous maternal leave, but also of paternal leave. A Swedish woman who has given birth knows she will have her partner home to deal with the household for the first few weeks (and Swedish men are usually well house trained), so she can concentrate on breastfeeding; she also knows that she won't have to go back to work after a few months- she'll get about a year, so breastfeeding seems worth doing.

Another big factor is the existence in England of a social class who are less in synch with government advice on health issues, because of poverty or poor education or class expectations or whatever. This simply doesn't exist in Sweden: everybody has about the same take on this issues; it was until recently an incredibly homogenous society.

Like I said in my previous post - I am pro breastfeeding. I fed my last child for 16 months. Loved it.

But I am so saddened by how some women use other womens child care choices as a stick to beat them with.

Some women HAVE to work. Some women try to breastfeed but for whatever reason, it doesn't work out. Some women JUST DON'T WANT TO.

I'm all for giving women the facts (I think it's fairly well established that breast milk is superior to formula milk) but then people should be allowed to make their own choice without judgement.

A relaxed happy bottle feeding mother is better for her child than a depressed guilt-ridden breastfeeding one IMO.

Why SHOULD women keep on and keep on persevering if they are unhappy, in pain, not receiving any support, desperately worried about their babies 'failure to thrive' e.c.t.

If women want to continue, then high quality support should always be available free of charge - I tried to provide some myself when I worked as a bf peer supporter. But if a woman had had enough and wanted to stop, she received no judgement from me.

I actually feel quite angry about your post op. I think you're suffering from a serious superiority complex.

Where's your sense of sisterhood?

I couldn't care less how other mums feed their children, but anybody who wants to dictate and throw absurd scaremongering pathetic statistics about needs shot! simples they are simply a pleb!

Its scaremongering and relentless at its best, and one mum "trying" to feel superior to another mum! one word GROW UP!

Oh, and another thing...

It's all very well to compare our cultures breast feeding rates to other societies, whose rates both for initiation, and prolonged continuation, of breastfeeding are better.

No doubt we'd all be breastfeeding for the WHO recommended two years if we lived in a cooperative tribal community in South America.

I don't doubt for a minute that if we had a society which was more accepting of breastfeeding in public, and had no 'follow on milk' advertising on T.V, our breastfeeding rates would be better.

BUT WE DON'T. This is the culture that is our reality. We can take small steps to try to change it for the better, but you have to work with what you've got!

We live in 21st century Britain. And the fact is that extended breastfeeding just doesn't work with some womens busy lives. Perhaps that is a shame but there we are. It's a fact, and it's not the womans fault.

Sorry, I'm ranting now.

Cory - I'm not sure it's a mixed feeding issue - or one to do with a lack of support from Dad. In Scotland, 55% of mothers are not bfing at 10 days. Of the 45% who are bf-ing, about 8% have mixed fed already.

And the babies are only 10 days old! So it's hard to believe that it's some sort of unexpected family crisis that leads to this or that Swedish mums only succeed so well because they have lax attitudes to giving a bottle here and there - I think about a quarter of mums in Scotland never even attempt to bf at all.

If you ask me it happens, BECAUSE mums to be say, "I don't fancy the idea of bf-ing". And people everywhere, including on here, say "it's your decision - it's your body". Instead of saying "you're a selfish cow - what about your babies' health".

Sorry - was that harsh?

I haven't read the thread because I've lost my glasses, but just wanted to say that I agree that breastfeeding is really a bit horrid. Bottles are just more convenient and hygenic.

No, but it makes you look like a D.I.C.K!

why dont you just accept people DONT want to BF and stop being a ignorant twat that you are making yourself look.

This is not sweden or any developed country, its the UK.

Just because people who choose to NOT to bf does not mean they are not thinking about their childs health.

I choose not to give up bf because of my child health shock horror!

Sweden research has been proved to be biased as they can mix feed, but STILL mix feed, but its still classed as BREAST feeding, instead of MIXED feeding.

Makeyerowndamnndinner - first off - I don't think it is a free choice. We live in an extremely unequal society, where poor, uneducated women consistently make bad decisions for their children.

Are you aware, for exmaple, that dental cavities in children under 5 perfectly predict household income? Is that ok too? Do you want to celebrate poor mother's choices of feeding their kids sugary snacks and fruitshoots, when they wean them off Formula?

Aren't you ashamed that you live in a society where being born poor means you'll live a shorter life and be more liekly to be sick?

My sisterhood? If sisterhood means the freedom to be poor and sick - no thanks, I'll pass.

Makeyerowndamnndinner - first off - I don't think it is a free choice. We live in an extremely unequal society, where poor, uneducated women consistently make bad decisions for their children.

Are you aware, for exmaple, that dental cavities in children under 5 perfectly predict household income? Is that ok too? Do you want to celebrate poor mother's choices of feeding their kids sugary snacks and fruitshoots, when they wean them off Formula?

Aren't you ashamed that you live in a society where being born poor means you'll live a shorter life and be more liekly to be sick?

My sisterhood? If sisterhood means the freedom to be poor and sick - no thanks, I'll pass.

sorry was supposed to say , i gave up breastfeeding because of my child health!

SCAREMONGERING AT ITS BEST, YOUR A SHAMEFUL EXCUSE FOR A PRO-BREASTFEEDER AND ITS YOU WHO ARE UP AMOUNGIST THE REASONS WHY THIS COUNTRY IS THE WAY IT IS WITH FEEDING CHOICE FOR OUR BABIES.

Makeyerowndinner - re your second post - I think you make a good point - we don't live in a pro-feeding culture - and I am not trying to blame anyone for not feeding... obviously, we are immersed in a culture that doesn't expect mums to bf, so you can hardly blame them when they do not.

I suppose the thing I'm getting at is how do we become more bf-friendly - unless you start to spread the word that bf is natural, normal and much better for you and baby...

I think one of the interesting things about the discussion is that so many mums have tried to pull the focus back to how awful it made them feel because they couldn't feed, followed by justifications as to why that was.... but the whole point of a public health campaign is to change the future - not blame people about the past.

If gov decided to run a campaign about how your body will never fully recover from 5 years of smoking - it woudl never occur to me to complain about it on the basis that it upset me as I used to be a smoker. That sounds immensely selfish. I would simply hope that it would possibly persuade someone else to never start.

WWC you want society to be pro-breastfeeding and the only reason you come up with for your so called campaign is breastfeed or you'll get cancer!! FFS there are actually positive things you could highlight and generally scaring people makes them adopt the posture of an ostrich! They won't listen to anything else you say. For someone who claims to be highly educated you really have no clue about how people's minds work, don't give up the day job (which I really hope isn't in advertising).

'Do you want to celebrate poor mothers choices of feeding their kids sugary snacks and fruit shoots when they wean them off formula?'

'Poor uneducated women make consistently bad decisions for their children'

Those are outrageous, offensive statements WWC. I'm starting to wonder wether perhaps you're on a wind up.

Why do you seek to perpetuate the myth that breastfeeding is something only middle class people do, if you are so keen that everyone does it? Many low income women breastfeed - me for example. I also give my kids the odd fruit shoot. Christ alive eh. Somebody call social services.

Do you honestly believe that being below a certain income bracket means you cease to give a fig about your childs health?

And do you honestly think it is acceptable to label everyone who gives their baby a bottle 'A selfish cow'??!!

You are coming across as a judgemental snob I'm afraid.

I fail to see what the relation between income levels and dental cavities has to do with breastfeeding. But I suspect the correlation also has a lot to do with it being nearly impossible to access an NHS dentist these days.

So.... what's your solution to all this WWC? Should we sterilise all women living below the poverty line? Or just the ones who don't share your dogmatic, ill informed views?

"SCAREMONGERING AT ITS BEST"

Does the NHS, BUPA and the Royal College of Midwives also 'scaremonger', as the link between higher rates of breast cancer among non-breastfeeding mums is also flagged up in the majority of their patient information leaflets on infant feeding........

i disagree with the premise that we don't live a pro-feeding culture. I felt only support while I was BFing. Living in London, there were plenty of public places that were comfortable to BF and in private restaurants, etc. no one raised an eyebrow. There are also BF lounges in major stores such as John Lewis if I wanted some privacy.
I had 100% support from midwives, HVs and my GP.
My family also firmly supported me.
I know I'm just one person and half this debate is based on anecdotal evidence.
However, I see nothing to suggest that the UK is not pro-feeding, and the majority of women DO choose to BF.
I also don't know the source of some of the statistics on BFing in this country, because the most-recent NHS data for England says 70% of women initiate, and more than 90% in many London boroughs. I don't know if there is more recent data than the 2005 survey for the other parts of the UK.

i hadn't seen this before, it really is quite interesting and a cursory glance suggests it could establish a strong link between income and BFing.

www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_110080.pdf

STANDANDDELIVER, yes you just take one comment out of all WWC posts and use it to your advantage.

Put all of the comments that some have gave,, IE: if you dont BF your going to get cancer, if you dont BF,, if your are a poor family and dont bf then your child will be thick. if you choose not to BF your not putting your child's health first blah blah blah!

As I said "SCAREMONGERING AT ITS BEST"!

at the lack of coherent sentence, but to my defence doing it one handed, and shock horror my other hand is bottle feeding

Since most women in UK are obviously getting the message that bf is best for their baby, as the stats demonstrate, clearly lack of knowledge or information is not the problem.

The message appears to be getting through, regardless of the edcuational background or financial position of women.

That most women chose not to continue with bf is an entirely different issue.

Regardless of what anyone says on here, some women obviously feel that they cannot continue due to health problems, either their own or their baby's. Quite honestly, these women don't need a lecture from anyone, they need support, understanding and acceptance that they've done all they can for their children. They most certainly do not need to be beaten with the guilt stick for failing their children, or damaging their own health and potentially leaving their child motherles. To suggest otherwise lunacy.

If we want to encourage more women who can bf to do so beyond the first few weeks, then there are quite a number of positive things that can be done, without insulting or offending those women who have chosen not to bf.

I have a different story from all of you and one that I could not care less if I breastfeed or not, I done it because I wanted too, not because of some shite research or scaremongering.

Ds2 was born healthy, breastfed amazingly, BUT his health deteriorated so rapidly that he was hospitalised.

Since then and numerous tests, I had to give up breast feeding (not sad in the slightest that I did, it was one of those things) due to ds2, he is CMP allergy, Lactose Intolerance and also Citrus Allergy, he also has been diagnosed with Asthma at 5 months old, due to loads of repertory problems.

Me and dh were both breastfeed, are asthmatic and our families have cancer in each side, all of us were BF, all come from poor families, yet all have a high education and also high intellect.

I think all of these research are nonsense and are primary used as scare tactics and for all of you breastfeeding activist to "promote" breastfeeding, in a scaremongering way and also try to be inferior way of thinking!

Simply at the end of the day its a feeding method, one if it was so natural could have killed my son, whats natural in that Eh!

Also I am very very so proud to have the devils blood soya formula, as I have my beautiful baby boy right here in my arms where he should be, WITH his mummy!

Im so glad I am intelligent enough to take all of this with a pinch of salt, and not allow it to affect me emotionally, and I am also glad that I can see anybodies feeding method a CHOICE, and that whatever that reason being to a "I dont want too" or "I wanted too" is the right decision for them.

So fook off MY BREAST MILK! down the gutter where you belong!