To demand a harder hitting campaign to promote breastfeeding?

[WashwithCare]

I?m sometimes taken aback to hear mothers gave up bf-ing because it was sore, or involved feeding for hours at a time? What did they expect? What did they think newborns do? Didn?t they imagine that anything chewing on your nipple for 10 hours a day was going to nip a bit?

But then again, who can blame them? Breastfeeding for the minimum WHO recommendation of 2 years is practically unheard of. Nearly everyone will tell you it?s absolutely your decision, and fine to stop. The public info campaign is fluffy and vague about the benefits, and the baby on the follow-on formula milk box looks decidedly peachy. Lots of women are so mis-informed, they believe that formula is almost as good as breastmilk.

Is it time for something a little harder hitting? How about this for a tv ad; (scene 1) mum feeding her newborn a bottle telling her mate how hard bf-ing was. Caption: Breastfeeding Hurts. (scene 2) same mum, but now older, bald and sick, hugs toddler. Caption: So does breast cancer. FADE to caption: "Breastfeeding significantly Reduces your Life Time Risk of Breast Cancer". Followed by cheesy inspirational slogan.

Ooops. So long writing that post that things have moved along again! Although I see that the OP is still patting herself on the back because some other people have taken the thread in a totally different direction to her cack handed opener, with no apology at upsetting a large number of people along the way.

great post nooka...

sorry, that sounds sarcastic; it isn't

I'm not sure people need a masters in research methodology to think through these sorts of issues....

The debate around the MMR jab for example, was a good example of a discussion that required an understanding of methodology and the strenght of evidence. Parents needed to understand that this was one dodgy scientis, with a dogdy methodolgoy coming to some rather dodgy conclusions.

Evidence around the Pill is similarly complex - as far as I recall, it depends how long you use it as to whether you increase your risk of breastcancer and it also reduces your risk of ovarian cancer - which is harder to detect and more deadly.

The evidence around bf-ing isn't like this. There is a huge body of work, and essentially all the argument about is how much better bf-ing is than formula. No one, has far as I am aware, provided any evidence that is is worse in any respect.. despite this, around a 1/4 of mums think formula is better or as good as breastmilk.

I'm not terribly familiar with the leukemia work - I will take more interest when someone conducts a study that produces evidence that FF reduces the luekemia rate.

Just to say, to my mind, it doesn't matter that the reduction in risk is small - if you're the mother of the child who avoids a serious illness because you bf it doesn't exactly matter to you that you're the only one that year or wheatever!

On the subject of wider effects, UNICEF publishd some research I think last week to highlight benefits in the DEVELOPED world. One of the conclusions was that more than HALF of all hospital admissions for gastro and diarohea in babies coudl be avoided if everyone breastfed. Now that is something to get worked up about!

I'm not sure people need a masters in research methodology to think through these sorts of issues...

Why would they, when they have you to educate them?

Even after 18 years threads like this make me cry. I couldn't b/feed either of by sons, hardly any milk, mastitis, and midwives charting steadily declining weight and getting very concerned. it didn't really matter in my case, both now slim, fit healthy and sporting, eldest 4 x grade A Alevels, youngest on the gifted and talented register at school. All this harping on and on reminds me of my feelings of guilt and inadequacy, the feeling that despite my professional qualification peiople would think I was "sub class" or too posh to feed or preoccupied with going back to work. i became a virtual recluse for the first year - did not dre show my face with the friends I had made at NCT for fear of criticism. Yes BF mothers do need support, but all this militancy is very counteroproductive. if you want to send out a message about cutting breast cancer surely obesity and alcohol consumption are greater factors.

It really irritates me when: a) pro bfers act as if breastmilk offers guaranteed protection against all manner of illnesses and b) ffers take the 'my child never had a cold but every bf child I know is ill/dying/snotty'.

People (including babies and children) get sick sometimes! Regardless of what they eat or other lifestyle factors. We can't control everything.

cory that's a fair point about the swedish women. I have found it so difficult to get balanced information on combined feeding - the majority of information I can find seems to suggest all manner of difficulties will arise from giving one bottle of formula a day, to the extent I wonder do many women give up bfing rather than supplement with formula as they feel they have 'failed' if it's not exclusive. As said previously, my LO gets 10-12 breastfeeds a day, minimum of 30 mins in duration, and 8oz of formula. I feel quite ashamed of this, even though it was not my plan.. Despite daily expressing since birth, I still can't express more than 1.5oz (even with galactalogues) supplementing with EBM

veryconfusedandupset - you have summed up exactly how I feel too. I desperately wanted to BF my DD, but she steadily lost weight and went down to 5lbs4. I felt so inferior and crap about myself, and I still beat myself up over the fact it may have affected our bonding and did I try hard enough?? (when both DH and I know we did EVERYTHING possible to make BF work). Having said that she is now healthy, bright and happy.
Stop bashing people that have really struggled with breastfeeding.

"do think that breastfeeding brings many benefits for both mother and child"

Why are we still talking about the 'benefits' of breastfeeding instead of talking about the possible risks re: reproductive cancers of repeatedly suppressing lactation following childbirth? We're designed to feed our babies. We should be asking whether there are any concerns for non-lactating women whose hormonal profile postnatally is not the physiological norm.

I know it might seem like semantics, but I think it's a really important step towards normalising breastfeeding.

Actually, standanddeliver I agree with you there (possibly for the first time on this thread). If the alternative to breast feeding weren't so safe and quick, then your solution (to discover why some women do not produce enough milk) would be eminently preferable to babies dying from starvation/ causes allied to starvation. I daresay that if a woman were desperate to give only breastmilk and had a willing donor to supply EBM while the causes of their non-lactation are worked out, that may be a workable solution. Most people however do not want to see their tiny baby wasting away, and wet nurses are hard to come by.

Veryconfusedandupset - I'm with you on this, too - I had very difficult labour, tried to breast feed, had virtually no milk, and ended up bottle feeding- and it has been great to share this with dd's Dad.

Feel sad about not being able to breast feed, but that's that, and am not very receptive towards approach of op. Getting a little irritated by sanctimonious types - we can't control everything in life.

I was in IKEA the other day and noticed they had a little screened off area available for mothers who wanted to bf, I've never seen anything like it before.

I appreciate there are those who don't want to be hidden away behind a screen and feel they should be able to bf in public if they want to - I agree, it's perfectly natural and can't understand why anyone would complain, however, for those of us who didn't feel quite so comfortable bf in public, I really liked the idea.

Having these facilities so visible should be encouraged I think. It offers women options and also raises the profile of bf.

Perhaps we should be campaining for more stores to do likewise?

") pro bfers act as if breastmilk offers guaranteed protection against all manner of illnesses"

I have never seen a single post on this board or anyone else which says openly, or implies that bf guarantees a child won't get ill. You obviously have. Perhaps you could link us to it.

"and wet nurses are hard to come by"

Which is why milk banks were invented.

It is very glib to say that. Milk bank milk is rationed in the UK, and given only to the very smallest of tiny babies. When my friend had her baby at 32 weeks weighing 3.5 lbs in August, she struggled to express enough. In the end the baby was topped up in NICU with formula because she was too big for milk bank milk despite her gestation and her mother's wish to bf her exclusively. This is in a baby friendly hospital where they do not easily reach for the bottle. Which is what informed my decision to donate some of my own. You will never find enough donors in the UK to donate milk enough to feed all the full term infants whose mothers struggle to bf.

"It is very glib to say that. Milk bank milk is rationed in the UK, and given only to the very smallest of tiny babies"

Yes - it's rationed because bugger all resources are put into promoting donation and storage of breastmilk. My local hospital doesn't have one, despite the fact that it's a big consultant led unit whose SCBU takes babies from 26 weeks. The majority of people don't probably think it's worth doing anything about - because of the prevalent view among the general public that it doesn't really matter how a baby is fed, even a preterm baby.

I know there would never be enough donor milk for all the full-term infants whose mothers struggle to breastfeed - not the way things are in this country where the fall-out rates are so incredibly high. But it's a shame that so little effort is extended to the mothers who are really committed to their baby having breast milk, effort to help them with expressing colostrum effectively and to provide expert, consistent and TIMELY support so that far fewer of them would continue to struggle with establishing breastfeeding.

I think far more women would donate their milk if it was made easier for them to do so, and if they were made to feel that it was worthwhile. But good on you for donating your milk - just wish more people understood what a difference breast milk can make to a preterm baby.

It certainly isn't that easy, but I wouldn't expect it to be. You have to fill in a questionnaire and have a blood test for things that would threaten your life assurance if you weren't being tested for donation. The milk bank I am donating to is the Southampton milk bank, even though I live in Devon. It goes to Southampton because that's where the dairy pasteurisation facilities are, and is redistributed to hospitals throughout the SW. I think the benefits of breastmilk vs formula for very tiny babies (re necrotising wotsit) are in fact very well documented, which is why they save it for that age group.

I have no idea if this has been posted previously, but it may be of consolation to those who have been upset by this thread.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8443904.stm

I especially like Professor Grossman's quote : "There may be all sorts of biological factors which affect a woman's ability to breastfeed, and when women are always being told to go away and try harder it's important to stress some simply cannot"

The truths of today are oft the fictions of tomorrow.

Oh yeah, and has anyone mentioned male breast cancer??

I have no real interest in pursuing this debate - I just hate to see people's feelings being needlessly hurt.

Just wanted to say to to veryconfusedandupset that you wrote exactly what I feel re guilt and upset although my son is only 3. I also feel guilty about the lack of enamel on his teeth which was caused by malnutrition in the first 6 weeks of life. You did your best and that's all any of us can do. My son is now v tall and strong and seems to be bright and I know stopping bf was the best thing I could have done for him (sad how I feel I have to justify it to everyone I meet though). Big hugs, you're obviously a great mum. BF isn't the be-all and end-all.

PS Thank you, CreditCrunchie! The bit about high testosterone rings true for me - I was thought to be polycystic in my twenties because my levels are high and DS was v light at birth even though he's off the top of the height charts now. Think I might print this article off and hand it to all those who tell me that I didn't try hard enough!

< lightbulb moment >

I have PCOS and needed fertilty treatment to concieve.

I am a failed bf'er.

CreditCrunchie, I think I love you

I was also suspected of having PCOS before finally managing to conceive DS naturally. Undiagnosed tongue tie, plus thrush, plus possibly hormones as well - I didn't have a bloody chance!

creditcrunchie for pm !

I successfully breastfed my three children.

I have also worked voluntarily as a breastfeeding peer supporter because I wanted to help women who were having problems feeding but wanted to continue.

I am definitely pro breastfeeding.

BUT. I became very dissillusioned with my work as I felt some of the other 'supporters' were so self righteous. I heard some outrageous things eg bottle feeding compared to not strapping your child in a car seat! The implication being that bottle feeding mothers were willfully endangering their babies lives!

We need to be more supportive of eachothers choices I think. A womans breasts are her own, and what she chooses to do with them is entirely up to her.

Many women experience so much sadness when breastfeeding does not go according to plan.
How dare you try to make them feel guilty too op. Shame on you.

HappySeven - sorry to rain on your parade, but the way the findings of the research mentioned by creditcrunchie have been reported in the press has been extensively criticised, by UNICEF for a start. If you wanted to read more (I imagine you don't), there was a long thread discussing this research on the bf/ff board here on mumsnet a couple of days ago.

Do think it's worth pointing out that this research was done in a country where over 98% of women initiate breastfeeding, and where the majority of women are still breastfeeding six months later. I just wonder how it applies to the UK where most women get very poor and inexpert breastfeeding support, and where most give up before their baby is 2 weeks old.

I do think the research is interesting though, and would like to know more about it. On a personal note, I was diagnosed with PCOS after trying (and failing) to conceive my second baby. Though I was given a less than 1% chance of conceiving naturally by my consultant I was incredibly lucky to go on and have two more babies without any help. I breastfed both of them exclusively and continued to bf for over two years with my third. I had GD in both my pregnancies too, which I understand could be linked to PCOS