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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To demand a harder hitting campaign to promote breastfeeding?

1001 replies

WashwithCare · 11/01/2010 21:00

I?m sometimes taken aback to hear mothers gave up bf-ing because it was sore, or involved feeding for hours at a time? What did they expect? What did they think newborns do? Didn?t they imagine that anything chewing on your nipple for 10 hours a day was going to nip a bit?

But then again, who can blame them? Breastfeeding for the minimum WHO recommendation of 2 years is practically unheard of. Nearly everyone will tell you it?s absolutely your decision, and fine to stop. The public info campaign is fluffy and vague about the benefits, and the baby on the follow-on formula milk box looks decidedly peachy. Lots of women are so mis-informed, they believe that formula is almost as good as breastmilk.

Is it time for something a little harder hitting? How about this for a tv ad; (scene 1) mum feeding her newborn a bottle telling her mate how hard bf-ing was. Caption: Breastfeeding Hurts. (scene 2) same mum, but now older, bald and sick, hugs toddler. Caption: So does breast cancer. FADE to caption: "Breastfeeding significantly Reduces your Life Time Risk of Breast Cancer". Followed by cheesy inspirational slogan.

OP posts:
LittleMrsHappy · 15/01/2010 15:40

Respiratory problems

I forgot to add also, he also has sever reflux and also all over body eczema, from day 8 of birth (was still BF) then

WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 17:15

Why do you seek to perpetuate the myth that breastfeeding is something only middle class people do, if you are so keen that everyone does it?

Because that's what the official statistics say. It's not like I just made it up.

www.isdscotland.org/isd/5939.html

Young mothers from deprived areas are least likely to bf their babies...

There's nothing outrageous or offensive about my remarks. I am simply repeating the facts. If you care to look, you'll also find kids from poor households have the most dental caviities, are more likely to be over-weight etc.

That's not to say every middle class mum bfs, or their kids never get fillings - but they are less likely to do so.

All this hysterical panting about how I am a snob is really unnecessary. However it is very interesting, that when you provide a pertinent stastitic, which is easily verifiable as fact, so many people are preapred to post that I am misleading them, or must be a snob or a troll - rather than going to look it up for themselves

OP posts:
hobnobsaremyfavourite · 15/01/2010 17:21

Oh WWC get over yourself you are a snob because it's not the facts you are portraying that are the problem but the way you are doing it. You sound so superior it's unbelievable. by the way you didn't answer my point regarding finding something positive about breastfeeding as opposed to scaring people to death?

LeQueen · 15/01/2010 17:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Allidon · 15/01/2010 17:43

"A woman who chooses to deprive her child of breastmilk (for all these personal reasons that can't be mentioned) to my mind is shackled and subjugated."

Oh really? So to choose to FF, with knowledge of the risks of FF, is to be shackled, but to be scaremongered into encouraged to BF to improve the general health of the nation is to be free?

MakeYerOwnDamnDinner · 15/01/2010 18:00

You honestly can't see that your comment that 'Poor uneducated women make consistently bad parenting decisions' is offensive?

I give up. I'm off to cook the tea.

Don't worry WWC. It's strictly organic produce only, with maybe a few raisins for pudding if they're lucky.

WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:06

I fail to see what the relation between income levels and dental cavities has to do with breastfeeding. But I suspect the correlation also has a lot to do with it being nearly impossible to access an NHS dentist these days.

Doh... under 5s with a good diet and good dental hygiene don't have dental cavities - nothing to do with accessing a dentist at all..

OP posts:
IncontinentiaBotox · 15/01/2010 18:09

"under 5s with a good diet and good dental hygiene don't have dental cavities"

sorry old bean, but that's ill-informed hogwash too

there's a whole plethora of conditions - genetic, allergy-related etc - which can cause weak and decaying milk teeth

can't you SEE how hurtful and stupid these generalisations are?

WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:09

Challinder wrote:

However, I see nothing to suggest that the UK is not pro-feeding, and the majority of women DO choose to BF.
I also don't know the source of some of the statistics on BFing in this country, because the most-recent NHS data for England says 70% of women initiate, and more than 90% in many London boroughs. I don't know if there is more recent data than the 2005 survey for the other parts of the UK.

Where do you get these ideas from?

The Office for National Statistics performs its Infant Feeding Survey every five years. The figures from the 2005 survey were published in March 2008.

Overall, only 35 per cent of UK babies are being exclusively breastfed at one week, 21 per cent at six weeks, 7 per cent at four months and 3 per cent at five months.

That's hardly great or a bf-friendly culture!

OP posts:
WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:18

Doh - you lot are a scream!! I thought everyone knew dental cavities was an indicator of deprivation...

Deprivation and dental caries status of 5-year-old children in Scotland
Patrick C. Sweeney 1 Zoann Nugent 2 Nigel B. Pitts 2
1 Department of Dental Public Health, Argyll and Clyde Health Board, Paisley, Scotland 2 Dental Health Services Research Unit, Dundee, Scotland
Correspondence to Patrick C. Sweeney, Senior Registrar in Dental Public Health, Argyll and Clyde Health Board, Ross House, Hawkhead Road, Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland, PA2 7BN Tel: +45 0 141 842 7353 Fax: +45 0 141 848 1414 E-mail: [email protected]
Copyright 1999 Munksgaard
KEYWORDS
Carstairs score ? dental caries ? dental health ? deprivation ? dmft ? socio-economic status
ABSTRACT
Objectives: The aim of this study was to investigate the relationship between the dental caries status of 5-year-old children in Scotland and deprivation, as assessed by the Carstairs score and its DEPCAT categories, which are composite descriptors of socio-economic status. Methods: Anonymous records, including postcode sector of residence, from the 1995/96 Scottish Health Board's Dental Epidemiological Programme 5-year-old survey were linked though a multi-stage process to their corresponding Carstairs scores and DEPCAT categories. The data were analysed to investigate the relationship between d3t, mt, ft, d3mft, proportion 'free' of caries experience and socio-economic status for Scotland. Results: When analysed by DEPCAT the mean d3mft ranged from 1.48 for children resident in the most affluent postcode areas (DEPCAT 1) to 4.87 for those in DEPCAT 7. The mean d3mft from the 1995/96 survey of 5-year-old children in Scotland was 2.93. For the percentage 'free' of caries experience (d3mft=0) the findings in this study ranged from 62.4% (DEPCAT 1) to 19.8% (DEPCAT 7). The d3t and mt components of d3mft and mean d3mft showed a strong positive association with increasing deprivation. The proportion of 5-year-olds experiencing decay was also significantly associated with a more deprived Carstairs score. The f component showed no association with deprivation. The Care Index (ft/d3mft×100%) ranged from 10.8% (DEPCAT 1) to 2.9% (DEPCAT 7). Conclusions: There was a striking association between increasing deprivation and increasing caries experience. Children from the most deprived areas had significantly more untreated decay and missing teeth. In a population with low levels of restorative intervention, no association was found between deprivation and the amount of restorative care received by Scottish 5-year-old children.

----------------

OP posts:
lazylion · 15/01/2010 18:18

am bf right now and it doesn't hurt at all. I think you are doing something wrong OP.

WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:19

In case that was too long for some of you, here's the pertinent sentence:

There was a striking association between increasing deprivation and increasing caries experience. Children from the most deprived areas had significantly more untreated decay and missing teeth.

OP posts:
WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:20

Lazylion - did it not hurt ever, at any point since you started feeding LO - how old is your baby/child?

OP posts:
IncontinentiaBotox · 15/01/2010 18:21

barrage of cut-and-paste notwithstanding;

"under 5s with a good diet and good dental hygiene don't have dental cavities"

is ill-informed, inaccurate hogwash.

If you really are reading and digesting all this research, it's a shame your mind still operates as such a blunt instrument - or has your gob sent your brain to Coventry this week?

standandeliver · 15/01/2010 18:22

"Im so glad I am intelligent enough to take all of this with a pinch of salt"

"I think all of these research are nonsense and are primary used as scare tactics and for all of you breastfeeding activist to "promote" breastfeeding, in a scaremongering way and also try to be inferior way of thinking!"

Have you read any of 'these research' (sic) that you refer to so scathingly? I assume you have, given that you feel able to pass what you see as a well informed opinion on it. And when I say 'read the research' I mean - read the actual original papers, not a 60 word report on it written by an 22 year old Daily Mail reporter with no formal knowledge of infant feeding?

Have to say - I find it very odd that there are people like yourself out there who have concluded that the NHS, the Royal College of Midwives, the World Health Organisation, UNICEF etc, etc, are all entirely delusional and ignorant about breastfeeding, given that they have all made recommendations about infant feeding based on the belief that breastfed babies have significantly better health outcomes as a group that artificially fed babies. I'm wondering how you account for them making such a colossal mistake?

WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:24

MrsHappy

Yes, you clearly have a "high education and also high intellect",

... Simply at the end of the day its a feeding method, one if it was so natural could have killed my son, whats natural in that Eh!

You are right - the strenght of your argumetn has won me over - clearly bfing can't be natural....

...So fook off MY BREAST MILK! down the gutter where you belong!

Yes, quite.

OP posts:
WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:26

By hobnobsaremyfave Fri 15-Jan-10 17:21:43
Oh WWC get over yourself you are a snob because it's not the facts you are portraying that are the problem but the way you are doing it. You sound so superior it's unbelievable. by the way you didn't answer my point regarding finding something positive about breastfeeding as opposed to scaring people to death?

I think it was positive - read the op - it says
"Breastfeeding significantly Reduces your Life Time Risk of Breast Cancer".

That is a positive statement about breastfeeding, isn't it?

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 15/01/2010 18:26

not been at work today (again), WWC ?

lazylion · 15/01/2010 18:30

Current baby is 4 months, she is my third and have bf all of them. No pain ever.
I do think there is not enough done beyond the literature given out to promote bf. No nurse / doctor / health visitor has ever commented, so I have never been encouraged to continue.

WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:32

Makeyerowndamndinner - confused that you're off to make the tea

You said:
You honestly can't see that your comment that 'Poor uneducated women make consistently bad parenting decisions' is offensive?

poor uneducated women, on average, make choices that are consistently less healthy than better off, educated women. Is that better?

If it's the basic gist of what I'm saying though, the thing is, it's true. It's a statisical fact - what do you want me to do - tell you lies?

OP posts:
WashwithCare · 15/01/2010 18:40

Lazylion - brilliant - glad you have never had any pain with all 3 - you lucky thing! I think that's pretty flookey though. Average bf-ing support group focuses on sore nipples, mastitius, and so on... Hope feedign continues to go well...

OP posts:
Vallhala · 15/01/2010 18:51

"Shackled and subjugated"?

Get a grip!

standandeliver · 15/01/2010 19:05

"But if you look at what they are actually doing, a lot of them were topping up feeds or letting their husband give a nightly bottle when they needed to sleep. For them to answer "mixed feeding" in a survey, they would have had a far larger proportion of non-breast. "

As far as I'm aware in the DOH Infant Feeding Survey, which is done every 5 years in the UK and is take as a primary source of information on rates of breastfeeding for the purposes of policy, if a woman is giving even one breastfeed a day, she's included in the breastfeeding statistics. The vast majority of bf mothers in the UK are mixed feeding. In our local hospital over 50% of breastfed babies are being given formula top ups (mostly unnecessarily) before they even go home. Less than 1% of six month old babies are exclusively breastfed in the UK.

"There is a very established view in this country, that if you do give in and give a top-up, you have then compromised your breastfeeding- so you might as well give it up altogether".

Women are told - rightly - that using formula, particularly while trying to establish breastfeeding, can and often does compromise your chance of continuing to breastfeed in the medium to long term. They are also told that exclusive breastfeeding is linked to the best health outcomes. They are told these things because a) it's important that they know this and b) because they are true. If intelligent women read this information and choose to interpret it as meaning: 'If I give a bottle of formula then I've got to stop breastfeeding all together/will definitely fail at breastfeeding/it's not worth me continuing to breastfeed' then really, you have to ask yourself what's going on in their heads.

"then there are quite a number of positive things that can be done, without insulting or offending those women who have chosen not to bf."

Of course, but women can't make an informed choice as to whether to breastfeed/continue to breastfeed unless they are aware of the advantages as well as the disadvantages of both breastfeeding as well as formula feeding. If you hold back information on the health risks associated with formula feeding for the purpose of saving the feelings of those people who can't/don't wish to breastfeed, then you are distorting the issue in a way which, in my view is morally indefensible. We are adults and we have a responsibility to make an informed choice for our children.

Re: maternity leave, the majority of bf babies have been raised successfully by working mothers, as paid maternity leave is only a very recent invention, and isn't available to the majority of working and breastfeeding mothers around the world. I appreciate it's harder to bf your baby if you are separated from them (having gone back to work when my first was 5 weeks old, and while I was still exclusively bf), but most women in the UK have at least 6 months of maternity leave, by which time it's much easier to combine work with breastfeeding than it is in the early postnatal days.

"IE: if you dont BF your going to get cancer, if you dont BF,, if your are a poor family and dont bf then your child will be thick."

But nobody has said this or implied it. Not even WWC! There is a HUGE difference in the meaning of these two statements: 'women who don't breastfeed have higher rates of breast cancer' and 'If you don't breastfeed you're going to get breast cancer,' isn't there?

Why do you feel the need to make things up? Why not just attack WWC for what she has said (which is tactless and a bit glib), rather than for what she hasn't said?

thesecondcoming · 15/01/2010 19:08

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RumourOfAHurricane · 15/01/2010 19:16

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