To think anyone who goes on to a frozen pond to rescue a dog is stupid?

[KimiLivesInStarbucks]

On tonights news two more people have dies trying to save dogs Every time we get a bit of cold weather and Ice we hear these tragic stories of people dying after falling through the ice trying to save a dog.

I like dogs as much as the next person but a dog is replaceable.

So sad for the families,

Would I jump in a frozen river / Loch to save a dog? That would be fucking shiny!
No way. It's a dog , it has 4 legs and is a competent swimmer who will quite likely survive.
I on the other hand am human. I would most likely hit the water and be unable to move and drown very quickly , if I was lucky the dog may kindly drag me back to the bank on it's way back.
I can not imagine leaving my children to stand by and watch me drown so I could save a dog.
Can you imagine growing up knowing that you do not have a mother because she jumped in a frozen lake to save the dog. Would anyone keep the dog that caused the death of their mother? I wouldn't , I couldn't look at it knowing that I had lost a parent because of it.

morloth interesting point.

Sadly I get the impression that some people would eat their children before their pets so I can well believe there are plenty that would acrifice themselves for an animal.

They would also be mentalists

If my dog got into a frozen lake and couldn't get out she would be a dead dog!

Perhaps the point is this: If after reading this thread you don't now always do your utmost to ensure your dog is properly under control near frozen water (or rivers in spate) then you are irresponsible. Unless you know for sure the underlying water is inches deep, or that the ice is definitely thick enough (as in the Lake of Monteith case) just keep your dog off it in the first place.

Out of interest, how many people think the emergency services should risk their lives to save a dog?

I don't think the emergency services should risk their lives to save a dog. The point is the fire brigade have equipment and training and can assess what (if anything) they can do safely.

i feel more for my son's feelings than I do for my feelings.

So, dog's feelings aside, I would rather suffer guilt the rest of my life for letting my dog drown while I looked on than for my sons to be motherless.

Dogs are nice, they really are. They arne't nicer than my children.

Made this point to DH last night, I wouldn't expect emergency services to save my dog either, if we were in America I might as you have to pay for it anyway but no I wouldn't phone the fire brigade. It is just a dog.

Don't have pet insurance either cos i wouldn't do anything to save my dog which cost more than paid for him. He is a pedigree so it is a substantial amount but not heroic. He is on my house insurance tho so if he got out of the garden and caused an accident we would be covered.

A dog is a dog is a dog don't you know.

My husband is not allowed to take dog to the vet as they can sell him anything. He is so soft.

Raindroprhyme - You wouldn't do anything to save your dog which cost more than you paid for him????!!!! So, if your dog needed a life-saving op or he was run over and the vet's bill was going to be more than you paid, you'd have him put down/let him suffer/walk away???!!!!!! Cut your losses and get a new one? What a completely bizarre, callous and cynical approach to pet-owning.

my dh is a firefighter and whilst he has training and kit I'd rather he wasn't on the ice trying to rescue a dog. Even with the best risk assessment 'on the ice' can soon end up as 'in the water'. Personally I think that if a dog has gone through the ice because of the owner's lack of control, then they should be billed.

Locally they've had to rescue a couple of dogs over the weekend - and the owner of one who went in after it. That dog died I believe.

If my vet's bill was more than I could afford, it would simply have to be 'bye bye cat'

Pets are a luxury. They aren't "one of the family", they're animals. They are pleasant to have around and can be conditioned into accepting you as their pack, or tolerating your presence, or making noises at you until the food appears, but they are just animals.

I would go to considerable effort and expense for my cat, as I really am fond of her, but I will do NOTHING that would be detrimental to my family.

My pets are like family. There's a difference between " I wouldn't go in but I'd be so sad and do anything else to help" and "fuck it it's just a dog".A big difference. People with heartless attitudes shouldn't have pets.

I watched a group of firefighters struggle to rescue a dog from our frozen local river. The dog was being 'cared for' by a professional dog walker who had no idea who the owner was as she only had a mobile phone number for him

They had to put a ladder across the ice to coax the dog out. It's ridiculous putting people's lives at risk just to rescue a dog.

Owner must have wondered why his dog was so exhausted that night....

I haven't read allt he thread, about to do that now, but no, YANBU. Why?! People are stupid if they let their dog off the lead when it hasn't got a good recall and if it has a good recall, why is it on the ice in the first place?!

Why not, Junglist?

I have a heartless attitude, as you put it..... My cat is not in any way mistreated or uncared for - but she still is NOT a family member. She's a pet.

I'd die to protect my family. To call a pet a family member rather devalues the idea of family. I wouldn't die for a pet.

Where do you draw the line? Is a pet hamster a family member? A stick insect?

Didn't think you heartless you said you're fond of your cat at least. There are some colder attitudes than that going on.
I wouldn't consider a stick insect family, no. Not that much of a doughnut!

"i wouldn't do anything to save my dog which cost more than paid for him"

Seriously Raindroprhyme? My dog cost £600 and his vet bill this year alone for a dodgy shoulder and diarrhoea has been more than that. Fortunately covered by insurance, but if it wasn't we'd certainly pay it. It wouldn't have to be that serious an illness to cost more than £600 for treatment, so unless your dog was really really expensive, there are a lot of things you'd not pay for presumably?

In answer to the OP yes I guess people who go in after their dog probably are stupid. But I can see where they are coming from.

My dog went through the ice earlier this year. Fortunately he was on a very short lead at the time, sniffing at the edge of the water, so I was able to hoik him straight back out. He and I were both shaken, and in the panic-stricken moment I can quite see how someone would just go in without a thought. I don't think I would because of DS1 and DS2, but I can see how it happens in the heat of the moment.

People seem to be assuming that in the event of a dog going through the ice, the owners conduct a full emotional audit, check that their wills are in order and perform a thorough risk assessment before making a calm decision to commit suicide in a fruitless but sentimental rescue attempt.

Surely when something like that happens the owners have about ten seconds in which to process: panic, fear, horror, guilt at letting the animal go on the ice in the first place and [potential] grief. Then they must think: well that bit of ice over there looks strong, maybe if I laid down . . . OR if I stand on the ice and stamp hard, it'll all break - it's obviously thin - and Rover will be able to surface.

It's clearly an emotional panic reaction which does not involve the intellect to any great degree. Therefore calling it "stupid* is U, in my view.

I can tell you 100% BalloonSlayer that I would not go into icy water/out on ice that had already given way for my dog. Not a chance, no emotional audit, no panic response. I would stand on the bank and scream and call but I would not under any circumstances go on after it.

I feel great affection for any animals I take responsibility for but I do have an upper limit on what I would spend on them (not sure what that is but it is there) and I don't actually consider them on par with family. I have had to shoot pets (a horse and a dog) before and it is a bad idea to get too emotional about an animal that has a much shorter lifespan and a much higher likelihood of getting itself killed than a human.

I was talking about this with DH1 today and he said that the people who would jump in after their dogs were barking
He also wanted to know if someone with a dog would jump in after their child and risk leaving the dog ownerless

Me thinks he was taking the piss!

Ok would anyone run in to a burning house to save a pet?

There are two things in this world I would jump in to frozen water for, run in to a burning house for, throw myself in front of a bus for or kill for, they are my children.

I love my cats but I would not run in to a burning house nor jump in to a freezing lake for them.

Well I'd like to think neither would I but the point is that the people do not think they will surely die by their actions.

Would I be burnt to death attempting to save a family pet? No, sorry.

Would I suffer some mild burns and smoke inhalation to save a pet? Yeah probably.

Would I die in a frozen lake to save a pet? Nah.

Would I ruin my new jeans and be fished out alive, wrapped in tin foil looking like a baked potato and a twat, to save a pet? Yeah maybe.

People just don't think it will happen to them.

I wouldn't go in after the dog, in fact my dog fell through ice the other day and I knew I wouldn't go in after her. Luckily she climbed out by herself but I wouldn't risk my life for hers. In fact it showed my dc who were with me exactly why you don't ever walk on frozen water.
BTW before anyone condemns me it was a drainage ditch round the edge of a field so not that deep, but I'll be a lot more careful in future!
ML x

yes cat walker if my dog needed treatment which cost more than £600 pounds i would put him down.
callous maybe bizarre no. it is a dog.

I am not in a position now to spend more than that on a luxury.

If my dog got a condition that meant he needed longterm treatment i would rehome him as i couldn't afford to treat it.
If he got hit by a car and needed his leg stuck back together i wouldn't pay for that cos i wouldn't be able to afford it.

I would not risk my life or anyone elses for my dog, no going on ice, no entering burning buildings, no heroics.

Just for clarification it is only a Dog! I would never swear at my dog.

i love my dog he is a great companion but he is not a member of my family.