WOMEN would you STOP posing in your underwear?

[LibrasBiscuitsOfFortune]

If it's your JOB i.e. pg 3 girl fair enough (different argument) but Rachel Weisz, Hannah Groves, Sadie Frost et al what EXACTLY do you think you are achieving? What is the point? I JUST DON'T GET IT. Why is the 'sex object' the highest accolade a women can apparently be granted in the 21st Century. This isn't about looking good or taking care of yourself it's about FLAUNTING YOUR BOOBS why???? why do you want people to know what type of wax job you have?

I know this is an age old discussion but taking your clothes off and posing for magazines seems to be even more prevalent in January, also I'm stuck indoors.

Yes I remember the Madonna thread too... the worst posts iirc were from nurses who claimed hospital staff would laugh and talk about you behind your back if you hadn't had a Brazilian. I mean wtf.

And as for slebs prancing about in their pants, here are some snowballs (pinched from twitter)

¸.?´¯) .?´¯) ¸.?´¯) ¸.?´¯) ¸.?*´¯)

How did you get pictures like that on MN?

Nighnynight - Iwould like that on a cup as well. D got me a 'Keep calm and carry on' mug for Christmas, but that slogan would be much better.

didn't morningpaper's gynae tell her off for having a barely-there ladygarden and said the hair was there for a reason? (better protection against infection apparently)

and, yes, it's all very tedious looking at Hannah Waterman so desperate for attention and trying to promote her horrible fitness dvd. It's like the binning-of-the-husband was all part of the PR.

(no doubt it wasn't exactly like this, but it all looks very seedy and sad from here.)

Oh yes, I want that mug as well! I have the 'Keep calm and carry on' bag and the 'now panic and freak out' mug but now I must have a "Sod waxing my nether regions for a bloke" mug!

(I c+p the snowballs from twitter)

You can avoid it, you know. I've got NO idea who the women are you are talking about because, in our house, we don't dabble in the celebrity culture at all.

We don't buy the magazines, papers, films or watch anything on TV that features these types of people. Holywood, the media machine and the banal people it creates are utterly boring imho.

It's amazing that if you just turn away from it, it completely bypasses you. I'm just pointing this out because if you have a no celeb zone in your household, then you are giving your DC's the space to grow into their own people.

I do agree with the OP that it is utterly dispicable in this day and age that women have marched straight from the polling station and right into the beauty parlour. This is what we've chosen to do with our liberalisation. I'm sure Emily Pankhurst would be brimming with pride.

And it's not only the youngsters. Some of my friends who are in their 40's were arguing with me the other day that the most important thing about being a woman is their chest size. They have already planned their ops. One said (she's got massive tits) that her DH married her as a large chested woman and so it was her duty to keep her assets up in order to please him. If my DH said that I'd floor him.

Spaceman, very admirable to have your home a 'no-sleb' zone. I was like that. . I wonder how old your dch are? It's like dressing your baby dd in non-pink, only to have her only prepeared to wear/play with pink items from the ages of 3 to 11. No point fighting it.

"women have marched straight from the polling station and right into the beauty parlour."

actually I haven't got a problem with that it's when the march from the beauty parlour to the magazine pages shedding their clothes as they go.

Spaceman you might have a no-celeb culture in your household (how old are you DC, are they not allowed some leeway in what they watch?) but everytime you go to a newsagent/supermarket/drive past billboards it's kinda in your face.

Back to slebs & stripping off, DH showed me a website he had accidentally discovered that had just about every actress you could name, no matter how famous now, with their norks out in pics taken before they were famous. I was to see Jennifer Aniston, Britney Spears, Kylie, Catherine Zeta-Jones etc etc. all obviously ready for the casting couch.

I agree - they are not old so I have little idea I suppose, but surely if you set an example over the years then DD's have to follow to a certain extent? Some of it must go in surely?

I'd have no problem with my DD becoming a goth, punk, plain jane, hippy, girl next door, geek..whatever image she wants to port.. but I will not tolerate her being a bimbo. Surely if you lay a good groundwork through their primary years they have to end up able to think for themselves and see that these dolly actresses are just 2D images on paper and not something to aspire to?

Regarding the supermarket shelves; in this country I think we're rather fortunate. In Europe magazine kiosks have now qualms about displaying full on porn magazines for all ages to see. I'd hate that being pushed in my DC's faces on a daily basis.

Its a few pages back by now but I love Stayfrosty's comment about what she wore in school (yes yes me too!) and the delightful term 'ladygarden'
Stayfrosty for PM!

I really like hair. Pits, legs, lady gardens you name it. They don't feel right, my own or anyone elses, without it.

Also I think people wash too much. Obviously stinky sweat is a no-no but I hate breathing in great lungfuls of chemicals. I'd rather just smell what someones skin smells like. Am I weird?

YANBU. I do not understand why Sadie whatsit feels that we all need to see her nekkid to feel better about ourselves (I read about it in mega the sleb section of Daily Mail). Same with old women-who-lost-weight-and-dumped-husband. And all the others. Put some clothes on; it's FREEZING. I was reading in the Times over the weekend, however, that apparently the paparazzi are no longer able to claim as high a price for photos and that there is a decline in the whole obsession-with-slebs culture.

What is worrying about all this airbrushing, tons of make-up etc. etc. is that men are starting to buy into it. Before, they were pretty much happy with anything (or had some vague standards around grooming, but nothing particular) and now some of my male friends are starting to think that this is normal; that all girls should wear micro minis, tottering heels, piles of slap and extensions. (this will probably all change once they get girlfriends. Hopefully). DP on the other hand is starting to sound more and more like a disapproving grandfather every day "that girl's skirt is too short. Why is she wearing so much make up? She should be showing less boob. I'm glad you don't show that much boob". I'm so proud

I don't think Brazilians are that common. The beauticians where I live will only do a bikini wax and will not do a Brazilian wax, which leads me to believe that it is still a fairly unusual activity.

You know what I really hate? The X Factor dancers and outfits for women singers. They all have to be showing loads of thigh and/ or tit, and sometimes they are dressed as classic streetwalkers. 20 years ago those costumes would not have been considered suitable family viewing.

I always point out to DD that they are not dressed properly.

I do feel the need to point out that sometimes stripping off and/or engaging in sexual display can be empowering for individual women. If you've been taught that female sexuality/the female body is dirty and disgusting, or that your body is too fat/old/wierd to be desirable, running around with your kit off in a friendly environment can be very liberating.

I remember YEARS ago seeing a bright young thing called Cat Deeley posing in Loaded topless (guarded by her hands) in tiny lacy pants. I remember thinking she was a Pg3 model then she turned into "Cat Deeley" got tons of presenting jobs and never did it again.

It is a rite of passage to acceptability in mainstream media which is a complete turnaround to how it was years ago when these pics would have been hidden from view not flaunted.

I think it was Cat Deeley who appeared on a show called 'Before They Were Famous' on a catwalk on the Kilroy show modelling sexy underwear... I remember this because, er, panning round the Kilroy audience on that clip (ie a busload of invited rentagobs and their mates) would have shown you... er....

me

Hmm, yes I agree Solidgold that for individual women, getting their kit off may be fabulously liberating, but on the whole, what is presented in the meeja is not women who have been told that their bodies are too fat/ old/ not good enough, but those who are told that they are perfect, and then their perfection is airbrushed and photoshopped. Those are in the main, the only ones presented to us. (Bar a few odd exceptions like on Gok)

Brilliant thread. Does anybody remember the young American singer Debbie Gibson? She had a crap hit or two back in the Bros era. Anyhoo she's a grown up now and I read an interview with her where she was talking about Britney etc, saying how innocent it was in the 80's compared to now.

Debbie Gibson was considered hot stuff when I was at school, and she wore high waist baggy jeans, a loose fitting warm jumper and cute , natural clean hair and 'teenager' make up! She was laughing herself at what she looked like compared to Britney.

These days she'd be laughed out of the audition. Girls in pop videos now have to look like highly glossed and airbrushed lap dancers.

I remember when fashion was clumpy shoes, thick black tights or baggy jeans, and a pilot jacket - in other words, warm sensible clothes.

I'd love to believe in this tipping point back to the old days but I just don't. The genie is out of the bottle, and we are all grooming much more, much younger.