to object to all this "Russell Group" malarkey?

[tispity]

Where has this term appeared from in the last few years and why does it confer prestige upon it's alumni? From where i'm standing, London University has always been a mixed bag really: Imperial (excellent), LSE and Kings (generally good, excellent for a few subjects) and all the others (I know not how many even). If I were to generalise based on what I saw when I used to sneak into their libraries during the college holidays, hardworking, working/ lower middle-class, suburban kids of average intelligence for the most part.

I am not being arrogant but (as a sibling of one and friend of many of it's alumni) it was always just a good old, reliable, solid red brick institution. Why the need to suddenly rebrand itself, in order to stand out from the group?

A full CV? Blimey. What does it include?

Working out here they came from from their hoods?! Is there a spotters' guide?

in my day you went to university/poly/college

i have to explain to my dc that the university of was NOT a university but a poly in my day

it IS HUGELY relevant

Like class on mumsnet it is taboo

Ronald - V true. GCSEs and A levels only matter until you get into the university you want. Then your university choice and class of degree only matter to the extent of getting your first foot on the career ladder. And unless you got a First, nobody will ever mention the class of your degree again.

I got a 2:1 but I was only 3 marks off a First, so I reckon with grade inflation I should upgrade it to a First.

It only struck me today that twinkle was not only a carol but a word for vagina. I may change

The class of degree matters if you wish to go on to post grad study,I had to have my 2:1 to get on my MA.

Back in The Day students were a fairly homogenous bunch, now they're not. I beleive that getting my degree was an achievement wherever it was from with a 5 weeker sat outside during finals (got an A) and on my lap whilst doing my dissertation, 3 others to care for alongside DH and having spent the three years battling the SN system (a full time job in itself).

My friend managed to get one point off a first alongside being a single mum of five, one of whome has autism.with no contact from their Dad due to a history of DV.

I sort of understand why people want to be snobby about their institution, but if they think they ahcieved more on the grand scale of things than my friend then I think they are sorely mistaken (she's doing a Phd starting September by the way, so no obvious career damage- and it will be at an RG Uni with Oxford inoput as they hold the only information repository in her field).

Never heard of RG till MN. If it about research, in my experience a good research uni does not necessarily make for a good teaching uni.

While I was at Bangor (over a 100 years old btw ) the psych department spent millions on this massive posh building that they would show off during open days but the building was only used by research staff and post grads while us undergrads had lectures in various 1970's monstrosities scattered over the city. And the well funded lecturers were too busy pissing around in their purpose build labs doing ridiculous experiments of use to no one just to keep churning out the publications while all of our lectures were delivered by Masters students who had barely just done the courses themselves (I should know - I taught stats while doing my MSc!)

Isn't the Russell Group just the name of an association certain large, reasearch-focussed universities are in? It is there for them to have conferences between themselves and share expertise. It's a bit like a 'union' for the universities themselves.

I don't think it is really meant to be used by students or schools.

mvemjump YES!!!! FINALLY!!! That is exactly what it is. The fact that middle-class mummies and daddies wet their knickers about it is totally irrelevant to what it is actually about.

its tispity, not it's

'middle class mummies and daddies' want their children to go to a university that is going to offer their child the highest standard of education ...

I dont see anyone wetting knickers over hoping for a great education

My son knows full well what universities come where - they all pore over league tables and world class rankings in their lunch hour

FGS this one is still not going is it- what on earth is there left to say?

RG unis are top research unis, most come into the top 20 ofleague tables. End of story.
Most but not all people want to go to a "good" which employers rate above others, but which is not relevant to all jobs/careers.

Surely that's the end of the discussion?

Yes but NotAnOtter, research and teaching are not the same. There are some top researchers at the university I worked at who refuse point blank to do any teaching because they want to focus on their research career (which is the real standard by which academics are measured, not teaching unfortunately). So although I acknowledge having an active research culture in a department is an advantage, I don't see why parents get so excited about it (someone else on here was saying how their friend was going on about how their kid's new school had 'links' to RG unis, whatever that means).

Yes, RG Unis are research ones. The term was not invented by Boden wearing MNers to make other MNers feel bad about themselves/their DCs/their life choices.

I went to an RG uni (only found out after I finished) and I am very proud of the fact, as I worked bloody hard to get in, while other students at my 6th Form College sat around in classes chatting/texting/mucking about. I seriously do not understand this whole British thing of trying to draw everyone down to the lowest level. Actually, I do; it's a class thing. This country is so class-obsessed practically no discussion can be made without reference to it; you went to a good university - oh, you must be painfully middle class (I'm not BTW, came up as "cheerfully lower class" in one survey), you're proud to have not gone to uni - oh, you must be working class. Man, it is exhausting. When will this country get over itself and the class system? The rest of Europe has (not all the way, but to a much larger extent).

I've gained qualifications from two RG universities. I feel dreadfully smug and clever after reading this thread. swanks off

After some reflection, it is frankly bizarre that people have to apologise for getting into and graduating from a good university (these universities rank amongst the best in the worlds, and thousands of people would love the opportunity to be able to study at them). In all honesty, if one of your DC came to you and said that they got into one of the top universities in the world, would you go "how terribly middle class of you dear. Stop it now. Reject the offer and go and study Oriental Basket Weaving at the University of Pratt's Bottom"?

Some comments from the Sutton Trust on this issue:

The Sutton Trust says that there is evidence which suggests that in some schools education and careers guidance is seen as low status, with little time devoted to it. This can particularly disadvantage higher ability pupils from poorer homes, who do not receive the support they need to apply to highly selective universities.

James Turner, Director of Policy at the Sutton Trust, said: "Today's school pupils need to negotiate an increasingly complex educational landscape, and the fear is that too many are making ill-informed choices early on which effectively put them out of the running for certain university choices and careers later in life.

"The absence of high quality advice and support has a particularly negative effect on young people from non-privileged backgrounds, who do not have access to networks of graduates and professionals to make up for deficiencies in the system. All young people deserve realistic and informed advice about where certain educational pathways lead and this needs to start early on ? at least at age 14 ? so they don't find themselves down a cul-de-sac of opportunity, wondering what could have been."

The report on it is here:

www.suttontrust.com/reports/NCEE_interim_report.pdf

Is anybody saying that you have to apologise for going there? Isn't it just the case that it's a bit bloody daft to go around using a term that isn't relevant to UG tuition when referring to your university education? And it's been adopted surely as a poor man's 'Oxbridge'...

lowenergylightbulb didnt you mean swanks off at rg thingy

whatever floats yer boat

Where does the notion that RG universities are not good at undergraduate tuition?

I did mean that SM, my RG education didn't teach me how to do italics on mumsnet!!

It was an ironic swank though in response to a load of wank.

Who really gives a flying one - education should be about doing stuff that you are interested in and improving your life chances.

Until tonight I had no idea that I'd attended one RG uni, let alone two. And it's certainly never come up in a job interview or has had any meaningful impact on my life.

I don't think that's what I said mvemjsunp. I said the RG wasn't relevant to UG tuition.

these threads make me laugh all the posturing and qualifications trumps and lookey where i went is bombastic chuff

given mn is only a discussion forum and none of us are posting in a professional capacity,it doesnt matter where one went or what one attained.to type some words on a screen

mvemsjump - not saying that they're not as good at undergraduate tuition, but I did make the point that ime research 'stars' (and the ones that do best on RAE) are stars because they refuse teaching commitments in order to concentrate on their research. And also that they are not automatically good teachers because they're good researchers, as they are different skills. Promotion in academia is based primarily on your research output.

scottishmummy - not to mention that any one of us could claim to have gome to any university, no proof required.