to object to all this "Russell Group" malarkey?

[tispity]

Where has this term appeared from in the last few years and why does it confer prestige upon it's alumni? From where i'm standing, London University has always been a mixed bag really: Imperial (excellent), LSE and Kings (generally good, excellent for a few subjects) and all the others (I know not how many even). If I were to generalise based on what I saw when I used to sneak into their libraries during the college holidays, hardworking, working/ lower middle-class, suburban kids of average intelligence for the most part.

I am not being arrogant but (as a sibling of one and friend of many of it's alumni) it was always just a good old, reliable, solid red brick institution. Why the need to suddenly rebrand itself, in order to stand out from the group?

I attended Oxbridge (like to keep it non-specific); I am puzzled as to why we would want to identify ourselves as RG when we already have our group (or pair)? I'm not being arrogant but I cannot see how it would benefit me; surely it would actually distort the signalling mechanism rather than improve it?

If you look at the average UCAS points per accepted applicant for a RG University maths degree, it will be a lot (understatement) higher than the average UCAS points per accepted applicant to a maths degree at a former polytechnic. So what is the point of working hard to get A* grades in your 4 A levels if you can get 3 C grades in your 3 A levels and go to a former poly to study maths and get better teachers. Is it part of Red Gordon's widening participation scheme?

I dont know if its parental snobbery, academic snobbery or industrial/commercial snobbery. I only know that my reasonably bright DS is being encourgaed by school, my employers and friends who work in academia to apply to RG Unis next year (he's in Y12).
All I want is for him to do well enough in his A levels to have some good choices open to him

Ha 'tispity - you would have fitted right in on that thread I was talking about before. In fact, I think you did...

FWIW, if anyone ever referred to themselves as having been to a RG insititution, I'd assume it wasn't Oxford or Cambridge

And that they were a bit of an arse too of course...

Crazycatlady - Probably the majority of maths graduates from a RG who are not going on to study further would aspire to a blue chip sort of job, surely?

Hope your son achieves his ambitions,wherever he goes.

I know some who are teachers Swedes, teachers!! And one is a priest...

Nice shoes - thank you.
Fingers crossed for first set of AS exams next month.

I don't know Swedlington, perhaps... but there are a lot more subjects than maths, and many graduates like to start their careers in a SME or go straight into running their own business, go into teaching, further academia, the arts etc...

this really is dull though, isn't it?

sutton group
russell group
polyversity
camford

they all do the same thing ffs it's just another ridiculous way of trying to exclude people from a group

Fundamentally a degree is a degree and it's what you do with it that counts

Obviously when you leave university some degrees are valued by some employers as more academically rigourous than others and therefore more desirable but in a short while that all changes.

We constant forget that many redbricks etc don't offer more practical degree that some terribly bright individuals are more interested in and suited to and are necessary for their chosen career.

This labelling, as ever, all seems so small minded

TheFallenMadonna - are you talking about the Featherdown Farms thread by any chance? Only joking (and digressing)!

There are universities, good universities and the best universities. As there always were, in fact, although there are more universities around now than when I was a lass.

I do agree with the sentiment that it would be snortworthy if anyone actually said
they'd been to a Russell Group university

Ok, here's the deal: I'll relinquish my membership of the RG (for life) in exchange for a Soho House one instead?

TFM I never saw myself as a uni of Londond student even though I did my degree at one London college and my PGCE at another, lived in an intercollegiate hall and most of my friends were from UCL when I was at Kings.

I thought it was about research. When I chose my uni I chose those according to the course I wanted to do and applied to the four places that did my course, which in m y case was Oxford, King's, Bangor and Durham. I was then fortunate to be offered a place at all of them and chose the one I felt the most comfortable at and was most inspired by. I had never heard of RG when I was applying and other than Oxford was not directed towards any university by my school

I know this is purely anecdotal, and 10 years ago (ahem) but among my peers at university (who undertook a variety of degrees), none of us aspired to join a grad scheme at a blue-chip and we have all found our way in the world doing a variety of interesting and different things from music journalism to running an IT company, ladies fashion buying at Selfridges, HR director at MTV, becoming a published author, pioneering researcher for the British Heart Foundation, deputy head teacher, running a PR consultancy.

So much variety it's impossible to say that graduates aspire to joining the blue chip rat race. Can't think of anything I'd rather not do, and I did spend two years running the press office at HSBC (one of my worst career decisions, but that's another thread...)

Ronaldinhio - It's not the same group though. Let's be honest about it.

Oxford Brookes isn't Oxford.

I'd like to go back to them being called polytechnics. If only because I hate the word "uni" and "gap year before uni" makes me want to weep.

TheFallenMadonna - Yes teachers should have been among the educational elite - that's right and proper. Most of DSs' teachers are Oxbridge and if they aren't they are RG. Although most don't have a PGCE by any means. Teachers should be much better paid.

I would like to see more money spent on education, I don't think we need to be paid more though. Although a few days before pay day I may think differenrtly.

Well I quite agree with you there Swedes

Does your DS's school publish details about the universities attended by its staff then? Mine doesn't (unsurprisingly...)

Twinkle - have you namechanged recently? I can only think of one MN teacher who thinks we shouldn't be paid more...

Yes TFM, was morosky and have now almost gone back to my original name.

Yes, they give us all a full CV for all the teachers. It's interesting, makes you feel like you know them better.

no it isn't the same group swedington but like I said too much emphasis is placed upon it imho

some incredibly bright individuals never darken the door of a university
some dullards frequent some of the "grouped" establishments

very often it doesn't matter a jot except in the earliest years of your career
I'm amazed by what credance we give it...surely it's just universities taking themselves even more seriously and trying to form an elite where there isn't one

Oh good. Twinkle though?! Is it festive?

Oh, might raise that at the PTA!

the staff at my school had to wear gowns on special occasions, so you could look at the hoods and work out where they were from