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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU about my ex employer.

31 replies

Hando · 21/12/2009 20:00

I applied for a great job, passed the assessments and tests, attended 2 interviews and was delighted to be given a provisional job offer - subject to satisfactory references and crb.

Crb and 1st ref came back great (they read me the reference over the phone), my 2nd to last employer said great things about me. My last employer's reference has given them cause to call me today and tell me that I am no longer being offered the job, but that I can appeal this.

The HR assistant (at the potential new company) read me out the list my ex employer had given them in the section they were asked to complete about any sickness absence I've had in the last 3 years. I haven't had alot but took 2 weeks parental leave last year when my dd was ill. They have not only put this down as my sick leave, but have also said it was because my daughter was sick. On the other occasion I had 1 week sick leave they have written what was wrong with me - ie. the medical condition I was off sick with.

I hadn't told the new company I had a daughter, and I'm annoyed that they have now been told this by ex employer without my permission. I also thing they shouldn't be able to detail the reasons I was off sick giving details of my medical condition. It wasn't too personal, but could have been and I can't see it being relevent for one occasion of sicknes. Plus I do not think the new company should be allowed to count parental leave as sick leave. They have an acceptable number of sick days they would like thier new employees to have had and if it'smore than that then they wil not employ you. This parental leave has put me over this "allowance".

Perhaps I'm just pissed that I now probably won't get this job.

AIBU?

OP posts:
famishedass · 21/12/2009 20:03

YANBU - parental leave is not sick leave and I would take my prior employers to an industrial tribunal if they did that to me.

Casserole · 21/12/2009 20:05

Surely you can appeal it on the grounds that parental leave is not sick leave? If you still want the job, that is...

ImSoNotTelling · 21/12/2009 20:08

God you are totally NBU.

Parental leave is unpaid and agreed isn't it - so a bit like your previous employer marking down annual leave as sick leave.

I'd be absolutely livid. I am sure they have broken the rules telling what was wrong the other time as well. Basically they can't fill a form in.

Are you on good enough terms with your old company to ring and point out they have done it all wrong and ask them to resubmit a correct one?

CirrhosisByTheSea · 21/12/2009 20:08

I agree that you should simply be able to state that the two weeks was parental leave. They can't have a 'limit over which they won't employ you' with that because it's govt policy and you have a right to have it, if it's been agreed by your employer which clearly this was.

I think the way the new employer are dealing with it is a bit questionable really. To suddenly say they might not employ you is a bit draconian. Surely they should be asking you in for a brief meeting to talk about any issues raised...

MumNWLondon · 21/12/2009 20:15

Thats not sick leave (presumably unpaid), and you should tell new company.

If you want the job, go back to old employer and get them to revise the reference and go to new employer and tell them that it was parental leave and unpaid, and was agreed by mutual arrangement, and did not arise due to your DD being sick.

Then tell new employer that if you don't get job because of this you'll be very disappointed, and hint that you could take to tribunal.

I don't think you could take old employer to tribunal for making mistake with reference?

June2009 · 21/12/2009 21:13

as an employer I was advised to be very careful with giving references as I can apparently be sued for giving a "bad" reference which would lead to the employee not getting the job.
I'm sorry I cannot be of more help and back this up with any official link...

blueshoes · 21/12/2009 21:32

It's potentially defamation if your previous employer gives a bad and inaccurate reference. They should know better - companies are normally quite careful about this. Yes, they can be sued.

Are you able to get a copy of that list or something in writing from the new company about the contents of that list? It would put the fear of god into your previous employer to have it in black and white.

Squishabelle · 21/12/2009 21:50

Yes June as an ex-employer I was of the same opinion. Its just not worth giving a truthful reference if its bad! TBH references are not worth the paper they are written on. All the references I gave were glowing!

Hando · 21/12/2009 22:23

Thanks for all your replies.

I'm planning on going to the CAB tomorrow afternoon and getting some advice there.

I am also going to call my ex employer too and have a word tomorrow.

I know that it's illegal for them to provide a bad or inaccurate reference, but does anyone know for a fact if they were wrong in providing information about a) parental leave b) disclosing the fact I have children c) disclosing the details and reasons as to why I was off sick.

Thanks again, really stressed. Have emailed the new company to state my objections and they haven't replied yet which is annoying. Hopefully will get it sorted this week, don't want the possibility of not having a job to be hanging over me all Christmas.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 21/12/2009 22:36

Hando, I am really no expert but the company disclosing personal info about you could potentially raise data protection issues.

I don't know enough about that area to advise either way. Maybe another mnetter will know.

BTW, as regards the bad/inaccurate reference, it is not 'illegal' in the sense of attracting criminal sanctions, just that the company could potentially be sued by you for civil liability/compensation in a defamation case.

Hando · 21/12/2009 22:42

Thanks, "illegal" seemed the wrong word, but couldn't think of another one that fits - I do understand what you mean. Fingers crossed for a MN resident HR director to pop along shortly.

OP posts:
Tanith · 21/12/2009 22:43

I would have thought you'd have a case for sex discrimination if they refuse to give you a job on the grounds that you have a child and took parental leave. I have a feeling there was a similar case not so long ago. I think the new company is on very dodgy ground there.

ImSoNotTelling · 21/12/2009 22:43

Assuming that you're not the sort of person who goes around sueing the pants off people (which you may be, I don't know!) what I think you should do is:

  1. Contact old company and have a chat, point out they filled the form in wrong will they do a new one with the correct info
  1. Contact new company (as you have) and tell them the 2 weeks was parental not sick, old company has done form wrong, how about it?
  1. Talking to CAB won't hurt. Find out what your position is just in case you are a sueing the pants type person

You say it is a fab job, I am so so sorry that this utterly shitty thing has happened.

Please keep us updated what happens, I have my fingers crossed for you. Hopefully new company will just say OK fine...

ImSoNotTelling · 21/12/2009 22:44

If you post in emplyment flowerybeanbag might pop up, although I haven't seen her around much lately

blueshoes · 21/12/2009 22:47

flowery has just had a baby

Hando · 21/12/2009 22:53

How utterly inconvenient of her

I have posted in there in case she still gets time to look here though!

It'd not a hugely fab job, just different, good pay for something I would enjoy and the hours are purrrrrrrfect.

I'm not the type to sue the pants off people, however I will do if this ex employer causes me to not get this new job. They are bitter because I earnt them lots and they treated even their top sales staff like shite, so we all left and now they are trying to get their own back I assume. Hmmm...

OP posts:
ImSoNotTelling · 21/12/2009 22:58

Oh! How exciting!

No need for face at all then

blueshoes · 21/12/2009 22:59

Avoid suing, but do find out your legal position so you know how hard to push it just short of suing.

I said earlier to get written evidence of what your old company said from the new company. That would be a good weapon to casually wave under their noses when you gently suggest that they 'correct' their previous statement.

They should not be allowed to get away with this.

StillSquiffy · 22/12/2009 11:06

TBH I am sure you do not have any kind of a case against your old employer - it is certainly not illegal for them to disclose that you took 2 weeks unpaid parental leave - though I am sure it will help if you politely ask them to call the new employer and explain that those two weeks were not sick leave.

By the way, it is perfectly OK to send a bad reference if it is an accurate one and if the points being made in it were made at the time to the employee (ie whilst they were employed) So if your ex employee for example told you that you were arriving late every day and needed to address this (and you didn't) they can of course say in a reference that you were late every day.

An employer who gives a glowing reference about a crap employee can potentially then can be sued by the hiring company for inaccuracy.

*

You should appeal against the decision by the new employer. If they agree the facts - ie that you were not sick but took parental leave for two weeks - and if they admit that this is the reason you did not get the job, then you probably have a good case for sex discrim against the new employers.

flowerytaleofNewYork · 22/12/2009 12:18

Nothing wrong with notifying a new employer that you've taken parental leave - as this leave entitlement is carried over to your next employer it's actually important a new employer knows how much you've taken.

However it sounds as though the problem is your old employer hasn't done that at all. They've basically said you rang in sick for two weeks because your DD was ill. From the new employer's point of view that's really not good, and indeed ringing in as though you are 'sick' when in fact you are looking after a child is potentially a serious concern.

So the first thing to do is correct that, and make sure they realise it's parental leave you took. If they still want to withdraw the offer, then that's obviously a problem. You can't be treated less favourably because you took parental leave.

Get that all straight and see what the new employer says. If all works out fine I wouldn't attempt to take it any further with the old employer tbh, other than requesting a new reference is issued with the correct information.

In terms of details about your illness, no they shouldn't have disclosed that without your express permission. Numbers of days you took off is fine, but the actual nature of your medical condition would be classed as 'Sensitive Information' under the Data Protection Act and shouldn't be shared without your consent.

Contact the new employer, appeal the decision explaining that the reference was inaccurate as it was parental leave you took. I expect they will be happy with that. Contact the old employer and request that a reference is issued for your records at the new employer that is accurate, does not contain sensitive information and gives accurate details of your absence.

See how you get on with that, and come back if you need more help.

For the avoidance of any confusion, it is perfectly legal to provide a 'bad' reference as long as it is factual and can be backed up with evidence. If an employer issuing a reference wants to avoid the risk of legal action from either the individual or the new employer, their reference should not give a misleading overall impression of the individual concerned. That includes giving glowing references about someone when they are clearly not deserved. Unlikely to be any come-back from a new employer who has offered someone a job on the basis of a glowing reference, but if that reference was entirely undeserved, it's a possibility.

It's all a bit of a minefield which is why so many companies now only give basic factual information about dates of employment, absence rates and that kind of thing, and avoid making any kind of subjective comment about people.

ImSoNotTelling · 22/12/2009 12:24

Congratulations flowery

flowerytaleofNewYork · 22/12/2009 12:33

thank you!

[props eyelids open with matchsticks...]

hanaflower · 22/12/2009 12:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flowerytaleofNewYork · 22/12/2009 14:05

thanks hanaflower

overweightnoverdrawn · 22/12/2009 17:03

congrats on new arrival . How fab just before christmas . Now go back to sleep lol

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