Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my normally sane DH is in danger of looking like a racist prick?

385 replies

FlamingoCrimbo · 21/12/2009 13:40

DH just forwarded me an email that has been forwarded to him and to other people at his work by one of his colleagues.

I'm hoping he's not forwarded it to anyone except me - it doesn't look like he has.

It's one of those ones called 'border law'. Just found a US version here - swap the US references to UK ones.

DH is just misguided, IMO, sending this on - he ought to know I'd find it offensive. But it's made me wonder if IABU to find it offensive and to think it's probably been written by someone in the US equivalent of the BNP or at least widely distributed by BNP supporters.

So - AIBU and, if IANBU, how would you tackle it with him? He's very lovely, kind, and, sometimes, misguided so I don't want to upset him. I had to stop myself replying with 'you know this email makes you look like a racist prick, don't you' but that's not really very nice, or helpful!

OP posts:
thenameiwantedwastaken · 22/12/2009 09:31

So are the asylum seekers meant to contribute or not take our jobs? Cos I'm not sure how they can do both...

Actually, if I understand it correctly asylum seekers are not allowed to work. They receive some benefits from the state while their application is processed but they are at a lower level than unemployed citizens would receive and I think fair enough, since the state is making them wait to have their status decided. Once they have been granted asylum they then become 'refugees' and can work and, if they want to after five years can take the Life In THe UK exam and become citizens.

skihorse · 22/12/2009 09:36

I'm sorry if this just sounds harsh - but we just don't have the resources to support every sob story on this planet as sad as they might be.

noddyholder · 22/12/2009 09:37

We as a country have legislation in place to accomodate asylm seekers and some other countries don't.That is not their fault!If I was living in fear for my life I would head for the place that I thought I could give my family a decent chance.The UK has that level of humanity thank god.Obviously any country has a limit to what it can deal with economically and there is no doubt this needs addressing but the general public do need to be better educated on the whys and wherefores of immigration in order to tackle the social side of this.

daftpunk · 22/12/2009 09:38

You're avoiding the question NH, you are doing what you always do, replying to me with an insult, how adult of you.

I'll take it you have no answer. (as usual)

noddyholder · 22/12/2009 09:39

I did answer.Anyway am off now for xmas have 9 people coming to my notting hill town house and a kithcen full of shopping bags!Hope everyone has a great xmas and DP hope it stays 'white' for you

PincoPallino · 22/12/2009 09:51

at "Somalian family with no skills and nothing of value to offer" !

Who is it to decide what they have to offer?????? If they have a body surely they can work or is it just a degree that makes someone worth one's value???? Honestly!!!!!

I can tell you why some decide not to remain in their first stop (Italy) and move over here: because here they might be able to find legal JOBS!!!!

daftpunk · 22/12/2009 09:54

You didn't really answer it, you just came out with load of rubbish, but i wont press the issue.

Listen, you have a magical christmas, and if a family of 10 Somalians arrive on Dover beach, i'll send them over to your place.

I'm sure you've got a place in your heart to make them welcome during the festive season.

pooexplosionsonthedustyroad · 22/12/2009 10:02

What gives you the right to decide who is worthwhile and who is not?

Aren't you proud to live in a country that is a beacon of hope and prosperity? A country that so many people want to come to?

Change the system, fine. Revolutionise immigration, it could be done, openly and fairly, in a way that would benefit all. But don't blame people who are leaving persecution and poverty who want to make a good life for their children, I doubt theres any one of us that wouldn't do the same. I know I would.

And don't pretend that the BNP differentiate between those who contribute and those who don't, because their "Keep Britain for the White Folks" wouldf get rid of half the country and ruin it for ever.

FlamingoCrimbo · 22/12/2009 10:14

Widow - can I just say that you are applying the same generalisation that you are against? You are saying that all naive people are bigoted and unforgiveable. You, yourself, are being very naive in thinking that, and very blinkered and narrow-minded to think that people can't have things explained to them and then understand it better and change their mind.

So, if you don't mind, I don't think I'm going to divorce my husband and force my children to live without their wonderful, kind, caring, thoughtful father just because he didn't understand the implications of an email he was sent by someone he liked and assumed would have worthwhile opinions. I don't expect you to be ok with that though, as someone who writes someone off for one tiny mistake and who then decides that anyone who forgives them is also bigoted and racist .

OP posts:
noddyholder · 22/12/2009 10:15

no do press the issue where was the rubbish

TheShriekingHarpy · 22/12/2009 10:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ScreaminEagle · 22/12/2009 10:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

GreensElves · 22/12/2009 10:32

those fabulously skilled Indian doctors and Australian teachers are often the sons and daughters of the immigrants you are so viciously neurotic about, dp

I wish I could believe you are a joker. It's frightening to think that there is such bigotry alive and well in the 21st century

noddyholder · 22/12/2009 10:33

We do know its xenophobic but it does pander to the racist mentality

tethersjinglebellend · 22/12/2009 10:35

"I saw this one in a local free magazine, only with Australia instead of US"

Am pissing myself laughing at the thought of Australians being against immigration of any sort- hilarious.

"It's easy to be Liberal from the comfort of your Notting Hill town house."

Ironically, Notting Hill was one of the first areas in which west Indian immigrants settled. It was the setting of the race riots in 1958. It was, up until the 1980s, one of the poorest parts of London, with a large immigrant population. There is still a huge amount of poverty in this area- it's just been hidden very well. This could be Burnley in twenty years' time

"You are unable to answer why they don't stay in other European countries they pass through."

If this were worldwide policy, the countries surrounding frequently war-torn areas would be full to bursting point. If we take your Somalian example, daftpunk, most of the surrounding countries are third-world, with economies at breaking point. (NB; I do not expect to see an elementary response of 'Our economy is at breaking point!' Relatively speaking, no it isn't. We are not a third-world country, and to suggest so would render the discussion meaningless)

I think we may need to examine statistics first...

This from the European Commission website:

"While the numbers of asylum applications in Europe have steadily fallen in recent years, this has not meant a reduction of the numbers of refugees and persons seeking international protection at a global level. It is a fact that the vast majority of refugees remain in their regions of origin in circumstances of extreme poverty and questionable safety."

link here

Two points to note- this statement was true in 2005, more recent data may show a different picture; the data does not take into account illegal immigrants.

DP, you need to clarify the "refugees/asylum seekers/immigrants, who come to this country and contribute nothing", who you are angry with. Asylum seekers are prohibited from working.

pooexplosionsonthedustyroad · 22/12/2009 10:37

It is a bad joke, based on lies, specifically designed to raise anti-immigrant sentiment and cast immigrants in a negative light.

That the kind of joke you like, Harpy?

No, it isn't racist. Its xenophobic, nasty, and untruthful but does appeal to those with racist tendancies in particular, clearly.

ooojimaflip · 22/12/2009 10:37

I don't see how this can be racist - all it says is "We are nicer than countries with oppressive, authoritarain regiemes or who are in the middle of wars."

Sounds like a good thing to me.

daftpunk · 22/12/2009 10:38

Ok;

You said other countries don't have legislation in place to deal with asylum seekers, can you name those countries for me.

You said if you were fleeing for your life you would head for a country that would give your family a decent chance, so are you fleeing for your life, or are you really after a council house and free health care?
Because if I was fleeing for my life, I would be happy just to get to a safe country.

You said the general public need educating on the whys and wherefores of immigration, in order to tackle the social side of this?

Educate me then, tell me why mass immigration (which is costing this country millions) is a good thing, and why BNP voters are really just thick ignorant racists.

I don't want the BNP in power, I want them in government, big difference.

You know even politicians from the main parties have acknowledged that immigration is a major problem for this country, it took the BNP to bring this issue to the forefrount.

What ever happens to NG from now on is irrelevant, his job is done, he has shaken up politics in this country.

And about time.

pooexplosionsonthedustyroad · 22/12/2009 10:39

"Am pissing myself laughing at the thought of Australians being against immigration of any sort- hilarious."

Well, there was the White Australia Policy, and the testing procedures specifically designed to reject asian immigrants in particular. Some disturbing stuff when you look into it, certainly nothing we would want to copy.

SerenityNowAKABleh · 22/12/2009 10:40

Actually, the European country that receives the largest number of immigrants and asylum seekers is not the UK, but Germany. I remember raising this before - the UK is not the largest recipient of immigrants in Europe or the world, by a long way.

Out of interest DP - I remember you saying before that your parents arrived as immigrants from Ireland in the 1950s. So would you be happy for them to be sent back if the BNP got in? (assuming they're alive of course). And also, why was it acceptable for them to immigrate, but not for people now? There was still rationing in the UK in the 1950s, and the country was economically depressed. Should your parents have been allowed to come to the UK to steal valuable/jobs resources from hardworking Brits?

tethersjinglebellend · 22/12/2009 10:41

"You said other countries don't have legislation in place to deal with asylum seekers, can you name those countries for me."

Denmark has a different approach, I believe:

"Denmark, which due to its protocol annexed to the Treaty is not participating in visa, immigration and asylum matters, recently negotiated with the Commission, acting on behalf of the Community, an agreement extending to it the application of the Dublin and EURODAC Regulations and their implementing rules. This agreement, which the Council concluded on 21 February 2006, entered into force on 1 April 2006, the notifications concerning the completion of the procedures in accordance with Article 11 of the Agreement having been carried out on 23 February 2006."

From European Commission website

SerenityNowAKABleh · 22/12/2009 10:43

Actually, the Economist had a special on immigration a while back. Economically, immigration is brilliant. You get:

  • a wider variety of skills
  • already trained/educated individuals, so the government doesn't need to spend money training them
  • adults. Children are VERY expensive for the state. They use more NHS resources than adults
  • individuals who are much more likely to move to places where workers are needed (natives tend to stay in the area, regardless of where jobs are)
  • individuals who are more likely to retrain and/or take on lower paid/lower skilled jobs.
tethersjinglebellend · 22/12/2009 10:43

poo, you misunderstand me- I find it hilarious that Australians have such short memories; I mean, how do they think they got there?

pooexplosionsonthedustyroad · 22/12/2009 10:45

How can you be in government but not in power? Must be missing something there, but I'm not au fait with the UK parliamentary system.

Immigration in and of itself is not a major problem, its how its done, and the BNP have added nothing whatsoever to the discussion. Mainly because most of their statements are based on lies and half truths designed to cover up their real agenda.

Shaken up politics my arse, he's a joke. You do realise you are voting for the British Nazi Party?

ooojimaflip · 22/12/2009 10:46

daftpunk - presumably all immigrants coming to this country will be coming because it is in some way and for some reason better than where they started out from.

If them coming here reduces someone elses standard of living then we need to see what the balance is. If the improvment in their living standard is greater than any reduction they cause in the country they are moving too, I find it very difficult to see a moral argument for not allowing them in.

An economic analysis of immigration policy across the US/Mexican border showed that it valued a US citizen as worth 5 Mexicans. That seems morally indefensible to me.