to think my degree is as good as anyone elses?

[SecretSlattern]

I started off in 2004 doing a NVQ 3 in Early Years Care and Education, 3 months after having DD. I qualified 9 months later, with 2 level 3 qualifications and worked for a bit in day nurseries, pre-schools and after school clubs before studying a Foundation Degree in Early Years Childcare and Education.

At the start of the second year of my FD, I discovered I was pg with DS but continued on anyway and had him 2 weeks before the end of the course. I graduated from Uni in 2008, six weeks after having DS.

I finally went back to finish the last year of my BA (hons) in Early Childhood Studies. I now have 2 DCs, one of which is constantly in and out of hospital, and have now discovered I am pg with DC3. The timing is pretty shit, but there you go. DC3 is due in May, the same month that I am due to finish my degree (although will still have to write my dissertation, which I have done before so am confident I can do it again).

However, when telling a friend of mine what I was up to (hadn't spoken in a while), she sniffed, pulled a face and basically said it wouldn't matter if I didn't finish my degree because it isn't a proper degree anyway. "What can you do with a degree in kids?" was the question I was asked.

I actually intend to go on in the future and do a PGCE in primary, specialising in early years. AIBU to think that just because my degree is "in kids" it doesn't make it any less of a degree? I still go to uni, still have to do a mahoosive amount of work, same as any other undergrad.

Oh, and Quattro, yes I did all the reading.

We invariably had a seminar to discuss each text, and would have to comment or present on it. I don't think I'd have been comfortable/able to wing it.

If your whole year group i s a thick as a plank and 50% drop out as they do at these rubbishy institutions then it's very hard to get the level of debate you want with fellow students though which has an impact too and very depressing for the lecturers.

Angryfrommanchester- yep Nursing Degree.

I feel like screaming when people say its not a real degree. I find it bloody offensive tbh.

I wouldn't be able to do a degree in nursing. No science A levels (and probably would find it difficult to get them).

Plus I don't have the necessary selflessness.

I didn't have any A Levels either. Did a two year access course.

I am a selfless person though. Think Martyr

Getting back to the OP and the shrieks of snobbery...

The OP asked if her degree was 'as good'. She didn't ask a different question and then shot down.

She didn't qualify what she meant by 'as good', so I, and others, assumed that it mean in the absolute.

If she had said 'as good relative to career choices', then it would be fine to say, yes, she was right.

As has been said throughout this thread, she has done well in the circumstances to achieve what she has. If she was heading out into the open market, then her degree is going to struggle against traditional academic ones. But she isn't going into the open market - she is sticking with early years - so has a very fighting chance, especially when viewed in light of the challenges she faced along the way.

I feel that any words of support that I give, and have felt this about other messages here, come across as humouring the OP, but I can assure you that these are not my sentiments at all.

Xenia - the main reasons that a lot of people drop out at ex-polys is not because they are thick or because the institutions are 'rubbishy'. It is usually because they are from deprived backgrounds, with little support, and find it very difficult to manage financially. They are also often the first in their family to study at tertiary level, and also have to do paid work as well.

RG and other 'better' Universities let these individuals down. It is then left to the less prestigious universities to pick up the pieces. Widening University participation is not just a case of encouraging 'thick' people to go to University. It is about encouraging those who have the intellect, but maybe not the traditional opportunity or situation to benefit from a higher education.

Many ex-polys are the very insitutions that keep the key workers in this country educated. Ex-polys often offer qualifications such as nursing and midwifery and PGCEs. They should not be looked down on, and should be viewed as a provider of key vocational training.

It is a reflection of society's snobbery that they are often perceived so poorly, not necessarily a reflection of the quality of eduction they provide.

Xenia in truth I do remember there being an element of that- I often found that I heard my own voice in debates so much I wondered if anyone else had an opinion. But it is possible to get that elsewhere, and of course again there is the option of further study to modify that.

Becuase that's it, isnt it? A degree from X may be worth less currency (I won't say value becuase of everything i've said before about value being individually determined), but that's very easily changed. My degree was in the subject I adored and which motivated me, my MA in in a more marketable and expanding field. It also boosts the whole thing up a gear in that currency.

It's two years yet until I complete being part time,and even then I don't know if I will be able to work- depends on the boys needs so much. However I do have my eye firmly fixed on another MA that is related to both areas if not, and that is at a more amrketable University. I amy not have got the place (I may,I can talk myself a fair game ) straight off but willwith an MA, and I will still have managed to live somewhere nice, where the kids have attended the sort of schoolmany pay for, and where I do not feel I have progressed to their detriment. Win- win.

Undercova: I was advised that Bristol was not great with mature students so you may have a point,it certainly mademe losemy initial sense of wow. I knew the lady who had responsibility for the area and liked her immensely, but even she admitted it was an issue. We had 50% mature students and the power to negotiate child friendly hours, reading weeks that ran parallel to half term etc...... DH is the only mature student in his Uni and has exams suddenly changed to evenings, early starts, late finishes....all those things a single parent or one with a WOH other half could not manage.

what good has debating done anyway? all these great instituions and degrees and the world is still a fucked up place.

I think it has alot of value when streamlining and developing thought, but then I did aphilosophy module within my degree so without it that would be somewhat- pointless.

Oh and your other point mademe think of the jains:a small faith in India. They study and learn and place much value upon that, they arealso incrediblly compassionate and worth reading about for some remarkable ideas on the nature of kindnes and non-harm (ahimsa).

Education doesn'tmake one cruel orless so, it just puts a sharper point on who you are already.

Long thread, but had to LOL on reading that engineers are good at writing. Um...

DH is an engineer, and I (a scientist) have had to stringently edit every essay/dissertation/article he's ever written.

I think its really sad that people have to do things like degrees in early years or nursing to practise these professions. My DCs were at nursery run by a wonderful lady who probably had little in the way of academic qualifications but was absolutely amazing with the children. It is probably impossible to get a job looking after pre-school children without an early years qualification these days, and just because someone has this qualifciation it doesn't mean they will be kind and caring towards the children they look after. Although hopefully most people who get this qualfication do love working with young children.

My comments above do not relate to the OP but to the general trend of endless qualifications for practical jobs. Surely a first aid certifciate, and the right personal qualities and experience should be the major reason for employing someone in this area.

Grenadine you are having a laugh obviously

"Surely a first aid certifciate, and the right personal qualities and experience should be the major reason for employing someone in this area."

I agree, grenadine. Not so much about nursing which is a lot more technological than it used to be in the days before it was a degree course.

You can't teach caring though. I remember chatting to one of my midwives (long home labour), and she was saying that she didn't agree with the degreed, direct entry, midwifery courses because she felt strongly that midwives should be nurses first (for the caring side). She was very young (early 20s), and I found her attitude surprising - but she was a brilliant midwife, both clinically and in caring.

I despair that we will soon be needing an early years qualification to look after our own children.

Tell us what you think then, dinamum.

Do you think these degrees are a hurdle or a help to someone who is anxious to start their childcare career?

Aren't the degrees normally held by managers and educators in nursery settings- the people who plan the schdules, do the paperwork so need knowledge of early years criteria, child development etc?

I understood the aim was to get one such in eachpalcement:far from it being a degree levelfield.

And the other positions are taken up by people with NVQ qualifications, what used to be the NNEB (which was around for many years so not in any way a new thing).

virginpeachy, you are right but ALL nursery staff have to do planning and observations! By the end of 2012 every setting needs to have an early years proffessional and to get that you need a degree. At present there are no jobs that recognise that qualification.......i am level 3 qualified and have been a nursery manager. My boss is doing her EYP right now but will still be doing the same job when she qualifies in 6 months and wont get any more pay. There is talk of re classifying the EYP so it will eventually overtake the PGCE so in theory an Early Years Proffessional will be qualified to teach up to age 7.

"Do you really think that all degrees are equal? Surely you can't believe that a ECS degree is on par with Medicine or Engineering?"

Probably not, if you want to be a primary school teacher then ecs would be far better. If however you want to be a doctor than I suggest medicine

bonkerz my sis was lucky enough to get a pay rise for her EYP- sad when that varies isn't it?

Hopefully the spelling of "professional" will be covered in the course if the EYPs are going to teach up to age 7.

Gramercy's post about teachers not being allowed to tell pupils about the relative values of courses and universities is shocking. Why on earth are we hindering children in this way? It's the ones from families who have no experience of university who will be let down, choosing drama or media studies GCSE when they dream of being a lawyer... no criticism of either subject but they wouldn't help you do law.

Although (some) teachers do have some funny ideas about the world of work anyway, have had teenagers telling me about advice that really wouldn't help anyone get into my field.

SlackSally, I laughed out loud at your reply above to the comment following, 'However, we also had a shedload of reading. e.g. three novels per week, prepare a presentation on one of them, and maybe reading some theoretical essays'

That isn't a particularly heavy workload for an English degree.'

Surely you know that English degrees are almost like climbing Everest in terms of effort? I myself spend 60 hours reading Hamlet and Joyce's Ulysses in the Aramaic translation, followed up by some gentle exercises on post-structuralist linguistics and the saving of an African nation's GDP.

Or ... no ... wait, maybe it's particularly pathetic to boast about the amount of work you've done or hours you've spent, given that the people who work the longest hours are sometimes those who were slowest to get the point of the question.