to think my degree is as good as anyone elses?

[SecretSlattern]

I started off in 2004 doing a NVQ 3 in Early Years Care and Education, 3 months after having DD. I qualified 9 months later, with 2 level 3 qualifications and worked for a bit in day nurseries, pre-schools and after school clubs before studying a Foundation Degree in Early Years Childcare and Education.

At the start of the second year of my FD, I discovered I was pg with DS but continued on anyway and had him 2 weeks before the end of the course. I graduated from Uni in 2008, six weeks after having DS.

I finally went back to finish the last year of my BA (hons) in Early Childhood Studies. I now have 2 DCs, one of which is constantly in and out of hospital, and have now discovered I am pg with DC3. The timing is pretty shit, but there you go. DC3 is due in May, the same month that I am due to finish my degree (although will still have to write my dissertation, which I have done before so am confident I can do it again).

However, when telling a friend of mine what I was up to (hadn't spoken in a while), she sniffed, pulled a face and basically said it wouldn't matter if I didn't finish my degree because it isn't a proper degree anyway. "What can you do with a degree in kids?" was the question I was asked.

I actually intend to go on in the future and do a PGCE in primary, specialising in early years. AIBU to think that just because my degree is "in kids" it doesn't make it any less of a degree? I still go to uni, still have to do a mahoosive amount of work, same as any other undergrad.

I think there is a lot of snobbish and offensive opining on this thread.
Makes me despair to think you are bringing up your children to be affected by these horrible attitudes.
Xenia - are you a wind-up?

Unfortunately Xenia isn't a windup.This is quite normal for her.

On aptitude for subjects, it depends on whether you value getting it right (so go for the sciences, math, medicine, engineering, accounting) or you prefer to talk around a subject with no one right answer (english, maybe some of the softer sciences).

I thought law, which I did, was a good combination of both skills.

Ah Xenia I must use the or I will say something I may regret!

Xenia - you make many interesting points. Some I agree with, others not. Firstly, of course you are right in that some universities (such as ex-poly) are less well regarded. I disagree that this is necessarily to do with the quality of the teaching, although of course this may be true in some cases. I think it will take a long time before the public's perception of newer establishments shifts - as edam said, a few generations ago Engineering was probably sneered at or English Literature seen as a cop out for those who couldn't cope with Classics.

You also made a point about the students' intelligence. Well, I achieved 4 A grades at A-Level and I didn't go to Oxbridge. Does this mean that I am not as good as Oxbridge graduates? Not at all, it simply means that the courses available at Oxbridge were, in my view, not as interesting or as relevant to my future career as those available at the university I actually attended.

However, you are right to say that it's all relative. A degree in EYC or Medicine would be of precious little use in my field, but equally, my own qualifications would not help me if I wished to work in a nursery or become a doctor.

Other posters have pointed out that some degrees can be used to pursue careers in a wide range of fields. This may be true, but there are still some fields which require a specific set of skills or knowledge base. You wouldn't want your GP to have a background in Lexicography, for example.

Xenia,I suspect you would have been deply disheartened by my GPfriend- whom I met when we wereboth training as nurses LOL. He didn't like the lack of patient focus in medicine.Interestingly,if anyone can become a nurse, neither of us finished the course.

What we arelooking at here is perceived value,and that has towork in different ways.Clearly ifa course attracts 2000 applicants for 28 places then it is harder to get into and has moreof acertain type of value than a course attracting less than capacity; if you follow the professional-financial sceme of ascertaining value that Xenia does then that is obvious.

however humans are not all the same, and do not start from the same point. With a wider,hlistic outlook I would argue that there is also value to be gained from curcumstance: someone who is the first graduate in their family, has a demaning life, has a disability or medial disorder, many things. That doesn't necesarily translate intopay and staus (but can- back to the sheer gritaspect) but certainly makes a degree at least as major a personal achievement as afirst at another Univeristy for someone who has basically been trained forthat through out childhood and schooling. Like IQ,value has a great many interpretations and I always feelsad that debates on degrees fail to acknowledge the true value in terms of personal achievement, self actualisation and just the value of knowledge that is contained with the title Graduate.I know that as a carer I may never earn the ££££ of other grads, but it was wellworth accrueing the debt becuase of what it did for mepersonally- that sense of under achievement had always been a big psychological issue for me. It would be as worth me repaying that debt from a low income as alarge one, and with my children there is evidence that me being a Grad bodes well for their prospects so there is a future-national benefit in there also.

You know,I am racking my brains about teh Uni bit Xenia and I swear that my ex and my BIL always said Uni. 'Course ex was disposed of a decade ago for being Mr Boring (well,other reasons also but he truly was), but I am fairly certain that MiddleClassExhibits though they are,they did indeed use the abbreviation.

And yepXenia I got the dinnerparty bit- from what I have picked up on here you do seem to enjoy portraying a character in denbates, i think you woudl appreciate the value of an innovator without certification as much as a certificated bore.

Snobbery is such an ugly trait.

I went to an ex-poly uni () for my undergrad degree and am now doing my postgrad degree at a RG, red brick uni ( said it again!)

The only difference is some old peoples' reaction (old people tend to be more prejudiced in this area i find, maybe they don't realise that it's not really the university as a whole's reputation that counts but that particular departments reputation that is most important, anyway i digress) and the amount of support i received. At my ex-poly, i was left much more to figure it out myself so feel it was more of my own doing. At the RG, I have far more help so less reading/effort is required on my behalf.

OP, I have DPhil from Oxford in Engineering and Law.

And a double-starred first from Cambridge in Classics and Media Studies.

Plus a congratulatory first from Yale in Business and History of Art.

Yet I would give this all up for a qualification in Early Childhood Studies, as this would let me control understand children. Rather than wanting to eat despair at the little buggers darlings.

Enjoy your studies, and congratulations on your achievements.

I hate the attitude that degrees in Medicine, law and engineering are sooooo much better than all the others. Bollocks.

YANBU- she's a dick

There are two different problems with making degrees equal. Firstly, there is the institution the degree came from. While there are some very good departments in institutions with poor reputations, unless you are an academic working in that discipline, you are going to be unaware of the reputation of that department. So people moving out into the job market, often in jobs unrelated or only loosely related to their degree find themselves at a disadvantage compared to someone with the same degree from Manchester or Bristol.

The other main problem is that degrees are not equal, not even within the same subject area. The obvious solution to this is to make some degrees honours degrees and some ordinary degrees, so that some departments in some institutions do not offer honours degrees. That would allow employers to see that just because you had gone to a university with a poor reputation, you still had an honours degree and so were on the same level as a Bristol graduate.

There is no point pretending that all degrees are equal; I saw an undergraduate reading list for a course at Leeds Met, and it included a 'How To' book on the reading list, covering an area central to the course topic.

In terms of what makes a mickey mouse subject, I would say it is a subject that makes the student specialise too soon. So Law at GCSE is mickey mouse, but not at degree level. Media studies and Journalism are no doubt wonderful as an MA, but are sometimess seen as dubious at earlier stages.

Many pseudo vocational degrees are mickey mouse because they teach students a little bit of many different disciplines, but they never fully master any discipline. That is a very modern way of learning, but it deludes people into thinking they are an expert on a great many things. That is great for debating on MN, but is quite a dangerous mindset to be entering the workplace with.

Synthesis of different areas of thought is important, but is should be left to academics and other experienced people to do. Undergraduate students should focus on one body of knowledge. The other option is to move to the US system, where students study a wide range of subjects as undergraduates, but it is widely accepted that you really need to do a Masters as well to have a good chance in the job market.

I am sure many students do work hard for some of these unusual degrees, but that doesn't mean that what they've learnt is adequate or suitable.

These are just general comments, and are not aimed at the OP. I think it is very important that some people working in early years are as qualified as Primary teachers, and so we need the equivalent of an Education degree for people working with the under threes in group care settings. Well done OP.

I remember there was an AIBU thread ages ago: "to hate the term 'uni'?" I'm afraid it does grate. So maybe I am an old fogey, but it sounds so... ugh. Especially when it is pronounced "yo kneee" . [shameless snob emoticon]

I was talking to my sil, a secondary school teacher, the other day who told me, to my horror, that the staff were told they must not pass opinion on the value of different institutions and courses. Furthermore, they were not to guide pupils on choice of GCSE/A Level subjects either. She was speechless with fury as she quite rightly observed that all the middle class parents know the system, but this edict serves to keep any bright child from a less advantaged background firmly in his/her place. She had stuck her neck out and told a very clever girl that she should under no circumstances do Health and Social Care A Level if she wanted to be a doctor.

You can bet your bottom dollar that no private school would sit on its hands and let their star pupils do Drama or Dance A Level if they had dreams of being an astrophysicist.

I have almost completed a Foundation Degree (and I also had a baby in the middle of it ) and Foundation Degrees are proving successful because for alot of career progression post degree you need to have experience. this is more important for mature students aswell as they have more commitments outside if their early career lifespan iykwim. I think it is great that these kind of degrees offer work based solutions and industry backing (and assesment) in areas of study where this experience is needed. I imagine people look down on them because they don't really understand them. I have abolsutely amazing work based placements aswell.

I also think it is a shame that people do not understand the level of work and assesment involved in a Foundation degree. You are doing assesment work at a degree level, you are doing a work placment (often fullish time) around your degree work, you most probably have a part time job aswell AND you have a family.

hats off to you woman and ignore anyone who is ignorant enough to criticise you for that

Btw, I am a state school supporter - BUT I will fight this atrocious dumbing down on the beaches... in the town hall, wherever.

at Xenia's rogue apostrophe. How the standards of grammar used by high flying lawyers are slipping!
Well done OP. It is true that degrees are not all created equal, in status or difficulty. However, there is no way I could have done my degree (noddy subject, decent University) with small children in tow. It also suits your purposes/ambitions. Fab. Tell your mate to jog on.

Millr i think the comment about you can't understand the value of separate degrees unless you are an academic is quite wrong when focu is palced on mature students,asa great many (eg my DH) have been in their fieldfor years and have plenty of awareness regarding theirindividualshere but not unfortunately the certificate to pass to the next level (often something required by law as with aspects of DH's studies).

Dh has his own business in his field but needs the letters after his name to expand. There are a great many like him about, both at under and post grad levels.

Grammercy, clearly I am safe then as I am of Somerset origin,and certainly do not pronounce it Yo-knee LOL.

I am not sure the idea of reducing hons degree status willwork simply as that relates to the number ofpoints achieved,so I believe universities would reduce their course in response thereby worsening any situation that is supposed to exist. I would support a US style approach, but only if post grad funding were made widely available- ATM I am doing my MA part time and one evening a week,and the £185 pcm cost is ahrd to find, for others it would be impossible.

I asked about the Access admissions for the eprson who said they have to take X%; it seems that the Lecturer was likely to have meant a reciprocal agreement Access courses have with universities, so the course I studied on (I have A levels and had also gained OU degree modules but felt I needed to take the step to get back into FT study- I completed with max marks in half the usual time, a record apaprently) was linked to bath Spa which is not the RG University my friend studied at and I was accepted for(that was Bristol).

There is no value to society in having 1/20peoplequalified as Law Graduates; there is however valuein having a highly skilled and educated workforce in a wide variety of disciplines.

Interesting thread.

I have had comments that my Degree (from a Russell Group University. ) is not a 'real degree'.

Its very frustrating as I almost worked myself into an early grave for that Degree. It certainly felt real at the time!!

Isnt your degree in nursing tiredemma? How can that not be a real degree?

I went to college. Beauty therapy. I know my plaaaace.
I am used to the comments that I only went to college, that it is a course for idiots , it means nothing and anyone could do it without the training etc.
Anything traditionally done by women seems to be looked down on.
Well done , OP. You should be proud of yourself.

ginormo I did a related qualification years ago and the anatomy knowledge was higher than ewhat was required for my Biol A Level (1990 before anyone starts a thread about the decline in standards in A Levels in the last decade LOL )

I think if you do what you have to do to support your family then you deserve respect; if you work extra ahrd to further those opportunities on top then you are an achiever. OP,well done.

"So someone please tell me how my learning was inferior because of the name of the University "

because it would be much harder, academically, to get into a top-ranking uni than a poly

So Dinsdale, where would you judge me,as someone who did get into a RG University but found it more beneficial to study elsewhere?

Snap judgements do not show the whole person. Someone who studies at an RG Uni and sdoes themionimum required to graduate (and we all know that is highly possible) has probably learned less than someone at a new University who reads widely and studies ahrd.I think its best to aovid the snap judgements and look instead at the person.

This is what I feared. However I suppose if children are clever they can go on line and realise an employer regards XYZ as better than ABC so they won't damage themselves but tons of pupils seem to think doing GCSEs in easy subjects emnployers deride is absolutely fine. They are livign in cloud cuckoo land.

"I was talking to my sil, a secondary school teacher, the other day who told me, to my horror, that the staff were told they must not pass opinion on the value of different institutions and courses. Furthermore, they were not to guide pupils on choice of GCSE/A Level subjects either. She was speechless with fury as she quite rightly observed that all the middle class parents know the system, but this edict serves to keep any bright child from a less advantaged background firmly in his/her place. She had stuck her neck out and told a very clever girl that she should under no circumstances do Health and Social Care A Level if she wanted to be a doctor."

So what is my point?
That there is a pecking order, in jungles, in the UK, all over the world; that people and in particular teenagers should be given the information knowledge and tools to take decisions based on that, not told Middlesex ex poly reading XYZ studies will make you as highly sought after by graduate recruiters as economics at LSE.

''However, we also had a shedload of reading. e.g. three novels per week, prepare a presentation on one of them, and maybe reading some theoretical essays'

That isn't a particularly heavy workload for an English degree.'

Really? I struggle to see how much more reading they could give. I was usually doing three to four modules at once, so usually a novel (or selection of poems or play) for each, occasionally two in a week. Plus the theoretical and prep stuff.

Why would there be any more, and what would it be?

Of course, that doesn't include assessments.

I don't think I'd have been able to do much more. Though of course I had to work 20 hours a week as well, so I guess I could have fitted a couple more novels in and starved.