to think the NCT breastfeeding class was a waste of my time?

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First time AIBU ? it?s a bit ranty ? but then they all seem to be so hope you don?t mind?

I had my NCT breast feeding class last night, since discovering I?m pregnant I?ve been given a lot of information about the benefits of breastfeeding, but very little practical advice. I had thought a breastfeeding class might be the solution.

However, in a 2 hour class, the first 20 minutes were spent ?getting to know everyone? exercises, then 1.5 hours on ?why breastfeeding is a good idea?, so only 10 minutes on any practical useful advice that felt rushed and very little time for questions. (When I asked about expressing, she said she'd get back to it, never did)

Everyone in the room had chosen to pay for the class and go out in the snow to get to it, is it not reasonable to expect everyone to already have decided this is something we wanted to do? We didn?t need the sales pitch.

Early on, we were asked about our ?fears regarding breastfeeding? ? one woman mentioned that the sheer number of woman who say they intend to breastfeed but then find they can?t or find it too difficult and the practicalities are a worry. There was general agreement that most of us were worried they wouldn?t be able to feed. Surely that should have been a clue not to stick to the pitch but to address the ?how to do it? rather than the ?why it?ll be a bad thing if you can?t?? (Far more time was spent on the statement someone made it might be a bit embarrassing to feed in public)

I?m considering complaining to NCT that they need to make it clear this is not a practical advice class but a class focussed on explaining why you should breastfeed (because I?d have saved the time and money and not bothered).

I dunno....to me, the orange segment thing is practical, and it's a widely used technique to demonstrate how inefficient sucking by itself can be at removing the liquid....you only get the liquid out the orange segment by opening wide and using your jaw, which is roughly what a baby needs to do to get milk effectively. I don't use this technique in classes myself but I know and respect bfcs who do...and I am sure they explain what's happening (perhaps you have forgotten, ExplodingBananas?).

And knowing that milk arrives into the baby's mouth not as a uniform liquid but may differ in terms of fat content - is that not a practical bit of info to have?

I don't agree with using the phrase 'if it hurts you're doing it wrong' as it's blaming, but it is important, and practical, to know that ensuring bf comfortable and pain-free is important.

If someone asks me, 'how long does a feed last?' I might try to get over the idea that some feeds take a long time, and that it varies. To say '45 mins' as a rough idea is not a terrible sin. Cluster feeds should prob come up at some point in the class, I agree.

But honestly, I don't think you have painted a totally terrible picture of what went on....maybe your expectations are higher than mine!

There is no one single breastfeeding experience that everyone has. So any bfc in a class who predicted what all the babies were going to need, and what all the mothers were going to do, would be generalising, and misleading the class.

It's not a question of not being honest.

Babies have unpredictable needs for closeness, comfort, contact responsiveness, food and drink. These needs can be met at the breast. This does not mean that every mother is inevitably going to have her baby 'clamped to her chest, pretty much solidly for the first few weeks' - though it's normal for this to happen a lot, and the mother herself needs support and care to enable her to do it. But normal life can continue around this, and other arms can do some of the holding and comforting.

Being prepared for the early weeks being intense and busy and baby-centred and sometimes confusing....I think we can safely predict that.

But apart from that? No....I am not going to pretend it is the same for everyone, 'cos it isn't.

I had a similarly airy fairy its all lovely type session on bf which was no use at all to me when I subsequently struggled to feed. I was SO naive about feeding, well babies generally really, and so upset that it wasnt going well and no one seemed to be able to help and I didnt know who to ask.

Forwarned the second time- I was very proactive in getting information and it went well.

I agree that you probably dont attend to or retain information that well before the baby arrives, but a practical problem solving run down with some sort of leaflet to take away and pin on the fridge would have been invaluable. In fact just someone saying 'it can be a bit tricky getting it right at first ' would have been a start. I felt very strongly that in their bid to promote breastfeeding, midwives I saw before the birth were deliberately glossing over any 'problems' and that was hugely counterproductive in my case.

I am still cross about it.

I think it sounds rubbish. No matter how much you learn about the benefits it is pointless unless you actually know how to.

I also don't believe that you can learn how to do it in just one session - I also used a couple of videos that my middie suggested and I also attended a couple of bf'ing cafes after I came home from hospital.

My advice is get some good literature and don't be afraid to use the system.

Our NCT BF session was just our group of 6 couples, so thankfully we were able to skip the get-to-know-you bits as we were all pretty comfortable together. All of us wanted to breastfeed, and we had lots of questions.

Like a lot of people have said, I did feel like there was a lot of 'preaching to the converted'. Our counsellor also said 'if it hurts, you're doing it wrong'. A lot of our concerns were dismissed with an airy manner. We came out of it feeling like breastfeeding must be the easiest thing in the world. I think it was a huge shock for most of the group when we encountered mastitis, thrush, tongue-tie, and sore nipples.

All of us persisted for a little while, but I'm the only one still exclusively feeding at 4 months, and I'm sure it's because I had the easiest time of it and had probably read the most about it outside of the class. We agreed that the counsellor hadn't prepared us adequately for how difficult it might be--ended up feeling like failures because it wasn't as easy as described!

It can indeed be very time consuming, thesecondcoming and if the class did not indicate that it would be, then clearly that's a real omission.

I am surprised that it didn't - I have observed many bf classes and this aspect is always covered.

Culturally and socially, our society equates a baby with predictable sleeping and feeding with being well-fed.

I am aware that mothers who call us may well be surprised at the reality of the unpredictable, time-absorbing, frequency of a baby's needs - I think this reality can be a shock to many mothers, whatever classes or preparation they have or haven't done.

I think you are asking a huge amount of a 2 hour class to wipe away cultural expectations. A postnatal call with a new mother, in despair because her perfectly normal, healthy baby is overwhelming her with its needs, may take 30 mins or more, and often, she still does not accept that her baby's feeding and sleeping is normal and healthy, and what she really needs is not to change the baby's (normal, healthy) needs, but to change her expectations, and to have the support and love and practical help of the adults around her.

YANBU and I had a similar experience when I went to my NCT breastfeeding class. I was already adament that I was going to BF so didn't need the sales pitch. That said I only really started to learn about breastfeeding when I started - if that makes sense. It was also the time when I realised what questions I needed answers to. I am not sure therefore what sort of class I would have found useful when I was pregnant the first time round.
I was one of those lucky people that BF just worked for and having seen the problems some friends have had I now realise that I had very few problems. To be honest the most useful advice I got was from friends who had breastfed. Any minor issues I had were resolved either by talking to them, the local BF support group or one of the various national helplines.

Some babies really aren't constantly feeding in the first weeks. I had one like that, and then one who fed beautifully for 5 minutes (ok, I lie, it hurt like mad, but no surprise, given how hard he must have been sucking!) and then had enough.

YANBU about the NCT class but there's lots of breastfeeding information videos on the internet and a few of them really helped me with my DD. She was only 6lbs so small mouth + large nipple took a while for us to work out. It was several weeks until I felt even slightly confident but nearly 4 months later we're doing fab.

Videos I found useful here

I agree that it's difficult to learn about BFing without a baby as you don't know exactly what help you might need. However it would be useful to source some videos and local support groups (maybe get in touch in advance) so you know when they're on. And ask about breastfeeding support when you look around the labour ward - can you stay in if you're having trouble? (I got myself transferred back to the MW-led unit for 24hrs as I wasn't confident going home if I couldn't latch her on myself)

I would also recommend Lansinoh cream - either buy in advance or make sure DP knows where to get some from. Ditto breast pads, I tried a few brands until I found some I liked. You might not need either but knowing DH knew where to get it from (and had a photo of the packaging on his phone!) really helped

YANBU I thought my NCT BF class was shite too.

What I did find useful was looking at clips of people actually feeding (as someone said earlier - sorry i haven't read the whole thing) and talking to my friends who had BF about how it feels/what problems can arise/does it hurt etc etc.

Also read everything I could find.

Congrats on your PG

Supply and demand

Basic positioning (wide open mouth, chin into breast, breast not just nipple into mouth) and basic holds

Amount of time spent feeding and how feeds can vary in length (I like the snack and meal analogy here)

Seeking help before cracks/bleeding appear

Use of dummies/bottles/nipple shields very early on

These are things I would like to see covered if I was going to a bf class

I felt like this about my nct bf class BUT there was one lady in our group who said that she wasn't sure if she would bf or not and another who I think felt unsure but didn't want to say so probably the sales pitch was relevant for them.

We did have the 'if it hurts you are doing it wrong' speil etc and I did complain about my bf class and was told that they didn't want to put people off trying. They think you are not going to take practical info in at that stage so they just want to get you to try and problems can be dealt with by 1:1, helplines, leaflets etc afterwards. Which would be ok if there was decent support afterwards. Now I have more experience I have mixed feelings about the class because people's real experience afterwards varies so much from a breeze to a nightmare for a huge variety of reasons that they couldn't hope to cover everything. In my class I just needed an injection of realism, even just saying 'plenty of people find it hard, if you are one of these you must contact x, y and z for help'.

My MIL (who is quite old) used to be a midwife and she said they used to have a good look at your boobs before you gave birth and have a talk about breast feeding and any issues you might have. She did help me (although I found her too hands on so didn't ask as much as I might have) and took one look at me and said 'well it's obvious it wasn't going to be easy'. For me, I wish I'd been forewarned.

p.s. she has also told me loads of mad sounding stuff that they used to do and I'm glad they don't do any more.

p.p.s I found reading books very helpful second time round and put on in my hospital bag, that I did consult there but I like learning from books.

mooma - looking at breasts/nipples to assess for feeding is totally discredited by research....the 'information' the assessment gives is unreliable and even misleading, and it's also very undermining.

Breasts have not been 'assessed' antenatally in the UK for about 20-25 years.

I am mystified by these classes that don't tell people that bf is not always easy and that help is on offer from different sources.

Bfcs are trained to lead the class; the classes are observed and assessed; they are written up and marked by 2 people; they have to present class plans and a class report. No one would pass if they did not include this basic, vital stuff....

I watched the tv shows on Home & Health (Bringing Home Baby, Portland Baby, Baby Tales etc) lots before having DS and in between the shows found they had short programs about how to BF which were fab. They were showing an American lady in hospital how to latch the baby on in a rugby ball hold as she found latching difficult. This was an absolute godsend to me as I couldn't work out when feeding him 'across' me if the right bit was in his mouth (cos you're meant to get the 'underneath' bit in, but he was diagonally across me, so not underneath at all??! I'm still confused!!) So I used that rugby ball hold for the 1st 2 weeks (I also had him on a pillow and got the pillow positioned rather than him, in case I hurt his neck) until I got the hang of it and gained confidence - then I used the traditional hold and it was fine.

So I'd recommend the baby shows above the NCT class, which I also didn't find that helpful!

I didn't do an NCT bf course, so don't have anything to compare OP's experience to, but did cover some basics in the NHS classes (about 1h).

Of course it's always useful to be prepared, but I'm not sure how much it would have helped me personally. Everyone's bf experience is so different, it seems to me to be more of a 'give it a try and see what works for you' kind of thing. That together with using the various support resources (bf group, NCT helpline, KellyMom) seemed to get me through the darkest days and on the road to bf long term.

However, the OP's course does sound like it could have done with some more practical content.

So, YANBU.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have bfeeders come to the classes as well to answer q's and for the women to actually see bfeeding in practice?

Maybe not that easy to find people willing to do it.

From my group only one ending up feeding past the early weeks and I am convinced that was only because she had an attentive private midwife to help her.

Exploding - many classes do have 'visiting' bf mothers as well.

It can be a good idea.

I don't do it, myself. Reason? Because people come with very particular hang-ups (sometimes) and very particular good and bad experiences, which are not necessarily generalisable. Sometimes, parents come and want to dominate the class with their birth story and this leaves little time for other stuff.

On one occasion, when I used to do it, the parents came and they were bottle feeding and they spent a lot of time saying how horrible their brief bf experience had been, and the class would be mad to even think about it. Now their experience was valid and genuine, but not appropriate for the class.

So it's a bit risky

Exploding - I was just about to ask that question. I didn't go to an NCT breastfeeding class, but my NHS one was arranged so that after the class (lasting about 90 mins) newish mothers and babies were invited to come along and talk about birth/breastfeeding etc.

What I found most useful was to go to my local breastfeeding cafe for the 3 weeks running up to the birth. I did it the first time so I would know exactly where it was an how to get there, and the times after that because they were really friendly. And that session was an absolute godsend after the birth.

I agree (with tiktok I think and others) who have said that too much 'practical' advice beforehand doesn't really work - but I would say that the best thing you could bring away from a class is a support network/helpline details/numbers of local breastfeeding cafes/breastfeeding counsellors etc. So that the one thing in your mind is 'this is a really good thing to do, it is worth making an effort for, and if I have any problems at all here is who I contact'.

Our class had a couple of newish mothers come in with their babies. It wasn't specifically about breastfeeding, although both of them were. It was quite nice to ask about things that we were specifically wondering about, and also nice to see how confident they seemed with their babies only a few weeks into motherhood.

tiktok - midwives not looking at breasts antenatally for 20 - 25 years would fit in with my MIL's tenure However two bfn councillors independently commented on my breasts and that I was likely to have needed help albeit more tactfully then my MIL. I can accept though that what they look like might nbot indicate how things are going to work in practice.

Personally, I don't get that extra info could be undermining, but that's me. My DH motivated me in labour by telling me I was doing rubbish, and he would do a much better job. Which sounds mean but made me determined to prove him wrong. Which just proves the point that what will work for one person won't work for another and group classes can only be tailored so much.

Horton, when it works well, it's fab to see new parents being confident and happy. But they are not all like that, and when you ask for volunteers to visit, you really don't know what their experiences and outlook are gonna be.

mooma - two bfn counsellors looked at your breasts antenatally??? Honestly?