to think the NCT breastfeeding class was a waste of my time?

[FakePlasticChristmasTrees]

First time AIBU ? it?s a bit ranty ? but then they all seem to be so hope you don?t mind?

I had my NCT breast feeding class last night, since discovering I?m pregnant I?ve been given a lot of information about the benefits of breastfeeding, but very little practical advice. I had thought a breastfeeding class might be the solution.

However, in a 2 hour class, the first 20 minutes were spent ?getting to know everyone? exercises, then 1.5 hours on ?why breastfeeding is a good idea?, so only 10 minutes on any practical useful advice that felt rushed and very little time for questions. (When I asked about expressing, she said she'd get back to it, never did)

Everyone in the room had chosen to pay for the class and go out in the snow to get to it, is it not reasonable to expect everyone to already have decided this is something we wanted to do? We didn?t need the sales pitch.

Early on, we were asked about our ?fears regarding breastfeeding? ? one woman mentioned that the sheer number of woman who say they intend to breastfeed but then find they can?t or find it too difficult and the practicalities are a worry. There was general agreement that most of us were worried they wouldn?t be able to feed. Surely that should have been a clue not to stick to the pitch but to address the ?how to do it? rather than the ?why it?ll be a bad thing if you can?t?? (Far more time was spent on the statement someone made it might be a bit embarrassing to feed in public)

I?m considering complaining to NCT that they need to make it clear this is not a practical advice class but a class focussed on explaining why you should breastfeed (because I?d have saved the time and money and not bothered).

YANBU, that class clearly wasn't useful. I would complain.

I'm not sure that I would have known whether such a class would be helpful first time round, I might have taken the opportunity second time round to avoid the mistakes of the first time.

I think it's reasonable to complain, myself, and I say that as someone who's involved in the NCT and very pro-bf but ended up unhappily ff my ds1.

If you also still feel a need to prepare better for BF, the best advice in this thread is the post on getting in touch with any local bf support groups now, it will make it seem less daunting to go perhaps when baby is born. And if you don't have problems, you should still be able to go along to meet other breastfeeding mums.

Oh ffs. I have had 2 children. The fontanelle does feel slightly depressed if they need a feed or are not getting enough lquid.
I explained it incorrectly. A sunken fontanelle is a baaaad sign , slightly depressed is not. Maybe correcting me would have been more helpful than accusing me of giving out dangerous advice.

I went to a couple of breastfeeding classes and I remember very little of what was said.

The two things that did help me with bfing were:
a book called 'Three in a Bed' which gave me a huge amount of confidence in my own body and made me realise it's normal for a newborn to feed hourly or even more often

and

a midwife who was an expert on bfing, and she gave me a couple of very small tips that solved the problems I was having.

(If my baby had a sunken fontenelle I would get them to a doctor very quickly - it can be a sign of illness/ dehydration).

Do give feedback on your experience of the class, and of course good luck with the rest of your pregnancy and with bfing!

"I can't help but think it's going to be difficult, but then the most worthwhile things are difficult..."
But it might not be. As with most things you hear from the people who struggled, naturally, the people who found it fairly straightforward don't have much to say!
I would read up a little bit about it (the NHS issued stuff I've found to be very good, although you only get one of the leaflets as you're discharged), get yourself to a Bumps and Babies NCT group in the last week or so so you can see some latching on and then just see how you get on! MN (and tiktok especially) is fantastic for specific advice. As far as knowing how often to feed - assuming you have a full term 'healthy' baby, just feed whenever your baby does anything to indicate he/she might need feeding. Sucking, fist chewing, grumpy, if there's no other obvious reason, try a feed Don't stress about how often the baby feeds and ignore advice about regular spacing, routines, writing down feeding times (unless you're specifically worried).
And when you've been feeding for 3 or 4 months, read the Politics of Breastfeeding, as someone mentions below.

Actually Tiktok I have to disagree with you on what you said about all the aspects of breastfeeding, mastitis etc being pointless at this stage.
Fair enough it may not be what everyone wants but not having that information was a huge factor in the horrendous time I had feeding dd and arming myself with this information while I was pregnant with ds (some of which was advice from your good self ) was a huge factor in managing to feed him succesfully.

I do agree that at bog standard NHS classes this info maye be over the top and pointless where really a lot of the time getting bf info out there and the benefits of it are paramount but for a class that people have gone out their way to pay for I think suggests they may want a little more in depth info than what was offered.

Also although you are of course totally right about the fontanel thing not being an indicator of needing fed it can be a good indicator of other problems so saying to disregard it wasn't necessarily correct either without expanding on it at all.

Have a look on kellymom . They have answers to just about any bf question you could have. They also have lists of medications you can take while bf

ginormo, but surely you shouldn't be in a position where you need to do that anyway?? (Full term) content, happy or sleeping baby = doesn't need a feed. Chewing, rooting, grumpy baby = feedy time. Do you feel the fontanelle when they're happy to feed them anyway, or when they're crying to decide they don't need a feed?

Ineedacleaner, I sort of agree and sort of don't. I read everything I could possibly read about bf before having DS and it has helped in a way in that I knew what to expect. On the other hand, I also expected to have a few of the problems I'd read about, mastitis etc, which of course I didn't, in fact I had a very minor blocked duct and some supply issues after a stay in hospital. It didn't put me off, but expecting all these things could have done. So I'm torn!

One thing I do half remember from one of the bfing classes is that a newborn baby's stomach is the size of a marble and gradually expends to the size of a golf ball, tennis ball, football etc.

as I say, I only half remember it.

Yes I can see how that would put people off but on the flip side if I hadn't known about these things and they had happened to me I would have been far more frightened, had no idea when to look for help and probably turned into the sobbing mess I did with dd and gone out and bought formula and bottles thinking it wasn't happening this time either.

Maybe the option of either type of class might be a better option find out if there is a demand for a more in depth mechanincs of feeding class as opposed to the benefits of type thing.

at a newborn with a stomach the size of a football

yes, it is nice to have a vague idea of what's going on when there are problems. Not sure what the answer is really...
Actually, yes I do - more breastfeeding in general. If everyone's doing it then chances are one of your family / friends will spot your problem and tell you whether you need to feed more frequently / apply cabage leaves / see your GP appropriately.

I had a reflux baby so feeling his fontanelle when he was lying down was a good indication of need to feed or him becoming dehydrated.
It's a very easy way to determine if he was screaming in pain or hunger.
If you know how it should feel when they are happy and content I do find it a good way to determine how hydrated a newborn is. I am talking about a small differnce from being flat to very slightly sunken. Not visible be certainly noticeable by touch.
I was told to do this by my MW when I had my first child as she was low birth weight and slept through feeds. If it felt different I was to wake her and feed. I was told the same thing by the MW and HV after my DS was born.
I must be strange if I am the only person who did this.
I should add that when a baby is sitting up their fontanelle feels and can look sunken (just incase anyone checks the fontanelle and now thinks that the child needs to be rushed to hospital!)

ginormo - yes, probably I should have expanded a bit more about why 'just touching the fontanelle' (FFS) to see if bf was going ok was dangerous advice...I was probably trying to stay on topic. This is 'AIBU' so being gentle is not so important!

Babies' fontanelles go up and down and in and out. Truly depressed fontanelle is not good at all, but a mother asessing a fontanelle in relation to a decision on whether to feed the baby or not is neither safe nor helpful.

Ineedacleaner....maybe there are some class members who want to know all the technical details about the many possible breastfeeding problems and what to do about them if they occur. They would be better off buying a book, reading it, and then marking the pages for later.

It's not effective group education, IMO.

'In depth mechanics' of breastfeeding ditto....

You need your baby to learn this - though the principles of how milk is made according to the needs of the baby and so on is a useful and arguably necessary bit of info to keep in mind.

You could easily spend a couple of hours on mastitis - avoiding it, dealing with it if it happens (many options), escalating the treatment, what to say to the doctor, effects of medication, are some women more prone to it, mastitis in early days, mastitis with an older baby, mastitis with or without expressing....and so on and on and on. All people will remember is 'bloody hell, mastitis sounds miserable....' How is that any use to them?

I do think getting the bf class right for a group of antenatal parents is hard, and I am certain we don't get it right for everyone...but I promise you, in depth presentation of problems is not the way to go!

ginormo - can I make a request, and please don't be offended?

Stop giving out advice on fontanelles.

Whatever you remember your midwife telling you about your baby in your situation, it cannot be generalised out to other babies.

Thank you

YANBU - My NCT bf class was not like this at all. It was 2 hours long and involved lots of demos with a doll! There was a slightly odd video filmed about 30 years ago but I guess bf doesn't change much!

I found bf really difficult initially and the lady who gave the class also happened to the the NHS advisor at our local hospital. She finally helped DS and I to get a proper latch when he was 17 days old and 15 months on I am still feeding him!

Maybe the NCT needs to look at best pratice and offer a similar class on all their programmes.

Not offended and certainly not giving out advice. I was told to do it. That's it. Simply answering a question that was asked later on.
Ask MN to delete it.
I should not post while doing other things. Appologies for my rambling and poor explanations.

"I should not post while doing other things"
I should be wrapping presents but had managed to avoid it until this reminded me

I'm not going to ask for posts to be deleted...ginormo, you were giving advice (read your posts again). But glad you are withdrawing it now.

ok - well I didn't mean to cause an arguement...

Tiktok, thanks for your imput, i might well be bothering you asking you for advice if i don't have a baby that just takes to it...

yanbu and yabu. IMHE lots of women find breastfeeding difficult to establish. If I hadn't been made to sit through 1.5hrs of the benefits, then I may not have been so determined to make it work when all the odds seemed to be stacked against me and DD.

Tho I agree a little practical advice goes a long way too!

Notanother: I think I sort of agree. I think there is a place in the class to talk about why breastfeeding makes a difference, because for some people it does help them feel that the struggles they encounter are worthwhile.

There is a tendency (on this thread and in real life)for posters to think that what applies to them applies to everyone.

'I don't need to know much about why bf is a good thing to do' = 'no one needs to know much about why bf is a good thing to do'

'I wanted to know about [insert specific list of potential problems]' = 'everyone wants to know about [ditto]'

The bfc in a class gets (usually) one 2-3 hour stab at meeting the needs of between 12 and 20 different people, vis a vis something these 12-20 people (plus their infants) will be considering doing for days, weeks, months, years and about which some of them have huge baggage, massive expectations, fears, hopes, complex questions, very particular practicalities (eg about working and expressing, when their working hours and conditions may be unique to them)....we are never going to tick all the boxes, ever.

YANBU - I remember similar feelings when I went to mine with DS. It was all sales pitch and no practicalities. Given that everyone there had expressed an intent to breastfeed and was there because they wanted to know more about the nitty gritty it was stupid to waste time telling us about all the benefits - we already knew.

She also didn't listen. One of the dads to be made up this beautiful analogy about being at a party and having your glass topped up and not knowing how much you'd had to drink. We all knew exactly what he meant - how do you know the baby is getting enough? But the NCT woman just replied that it was safe to drink the odd glass of wine when bfing!

I think the NCT could do their rep a lot of favours by changing the focus of these classes. I was so shocked when I realised that bfing was actually quite difficult and physically tiring - I used to wake with every bone in my body aching after a few months. I'm sure if women had more idea that yes, it was tough at times but worth sticking with we'd have better longer term rates.

Ok, having now read thread I can see this is a somewhat controversial pov.