that 50-50 res is AWFUL for kids & mothers and women should fight back?

[rageagainstthe50res]

OK, hands up, i name-changed, because this is so emotionally charged and I don't want to be alienated from my usual threads.

BUT, AIBU to think that actually 50-50 parenting is fucking awful for kids? I mean, can you imagine living your life between two houses? Just how disorientating and unsettling it would be?

And AIBU to think that women have given away too many of their own rights in the name of 'fathers' rights?' I LOVE my father, and my DS loves hers, even though we're not together but in 99% of all parenting cases I know it is the woman who does the laundry, the packed lunches, the kiss it betters, the costumes for the nativity.

We don't have gender equality in this country - salary discrepancies, violence against women, flagrant misogyny in the media etc. Yet the few rights we do hold - that we should be the primary parent because we grow our children inside us and feed them from our own bodies, we now glibly throw away to 'fathers'. I AM NOT SAYING FATHERS SHOULD BE DENIED ACCESS TO THEIR CHILDREN. But I do think 50-50 is too much. And you're telling me that women don't HATE having their kids only 50% of the time? I'm sure most of them are absolutely miserable. A weekend off, great, but 50-50 just sounds heinous.
REally, I'm not being an arse, I'm just massively curious.

no - I meant fair to the child.

If the child has an equal or greater bond with a working parent then it's not fair to disregard that on a split based purely on number of hours worked or whatever.

In my post about working parents I was also thinking of working mothers with children in childcare - would anyone say that they have less of a bond with their children than SAHMs?

"By dittany Thu 17-Dec-09 19:02:22
It sounds like we are just coming from our own experiences and perspectives TYV and you're right there is probably less disagreement between us than agreement."

I think we are agreed on the most important point which is that the child's rights trump everyone else's - I think my point is that the child's wishes and rights shouldn't be over-ridden purely because of childcare arrangements in place before a split.

If a child has a strong bond with both parents and wants to see both their parents equally then that should be facilitated as much as possible regardless of what the status quo was before the split, and there are ways to make that a good experience for everyone if the parents work on it.

I am not naive about how crap some men are, my dd father emptied my bak account before kicking me on to the streets with a new born baby. We had a very difficult divorce and there were times when I wanted him to have as little contct with dd as possible because I was bloody angry.

However it is the duty of a parent to put their child first and often when one parents does this the other realises that they are being an arse and they play fairly.

I would have loved my dd to have spent more time with her father, and did offer him 50/50 residency as we lived close. He did not take me up on the offer as for him childcare was an issue whereas it wasn't for me.

We have now moved away so dd sees much less of her father but we only moved away with his blessing and she speaks to her father every evening and he visits as often as he can.

I don't think that women should be the default carers once a child has stopped breastfeeding. My partner is a fantasic parent to my dd, even though he is not her biological father. He has put his career on hold, works part time to be there for her when she isn;t at school and there bond is very close. If dp were her biological father I think it would be a travesty if he did not see dd for 50% of the time if we were to split. To be honest if someone should see dd less it would be me.

Infact when we did come close to splitting up a while ago I always made it very clear that I wanted him to continue his relationship with dd.

I don't think that dp is a superdad, he may be unusual in the fact that he is at home but I think most fathers are as dedicated to their children and deserve a better deal.

theyoungvisitor wrote
"I think my point is that the child's wishes 2and rights shouldn't be over-ridden purely because of childcare arrangements in place before a split.

If a child has a strong bond with both parents and wants to see both their parents equally then that should be facilitated as much as possible regardless of what the status quo was before the split"
Spot on IME!

In mild support of the OP I was forced to hand over my dd to her father for 2 weeks just before her second birthday and it was something I really regretted. I don't doubt she had a nice time but when she was returned to me she clung on and was shaking.

It has nothing to do with the rights of women/mothers any more than it has to do with the rights of men/fathers. I think it is really wrong that courts assume the mother should have custody and more to the point hardly ever properly enforce access rights of Dads when women manipulate the situation out of spite.

I do think 50-50 parenting arrangements where the child is shipped from one house to another is very bad for a child. I know one girl who suffers badly because of this. She is taken on a Friday straight after school to her Dad. She gets out of her Mums car in a service area and into her Dads car and then on Sunday the reverse happens.

The best arrangement is one I have seen where the child stays in one house and the parents each then take turns to live in the house and have a small flat nearby for 'nights away'. It works very well for everyone concerned as the Mum and Dad get a social life, a caring childminder when needed (i.e the other parent) and the child has stability.

Snorbs "A child is not the property of the mother."

Your response is so typical of male attitudes. You immediately strike out at the mother, rather than even considering the children and their needs.

Why is it so hard to consider that females are the primary care giver, that children want their mum more than their dad, and that this is just natural?

Children should spend most of their time with their most nurturing parent - their mother.

The DC is not a possession-they are not 'the property' of anyone! Both parents need to work out a way that suits them, put their animosity and heartbreak on one side and do what is best for the DC. I don't see how it can be best for one parent to be sidelined to visitor status.

lindsaygil what nonsense, beyond the breastfeeding stage there is no reason why females need to be the primary carer.

I actually think we have done it the ideal way. I was the ideal carer for the first few years and now dp has taken over. We are o both primary carers.

lindsaygii - I am gobsmacked!

"children want their mum more than their dad"

Morosky The reason is evolution. Name one species where the males are the primary carer. Oh, right, seahorses. Great.

Females have evolved to be the carer, and all young turn to their mother/aunt/grandmother group for care when they are hungry/upset/lonely.

That's the reason. The children prefer it. The children. THE CHILDREN.

OK, here is my personal experience of this.

I met DH a few months after he had split from DSDs Mum, he was seeing her every other weekend (she was 3). I have 2 DDs of a similar age and eventually they met. After a few months DH and I moved in together, DSD then stayed with us on the weekends, as time went on we all agreed that DSD would spend Wednesday-Sunday with us every other weekend. DSD then said that she wanted to live with us not Mummy as she missed her Daddy and me and her sisters. We asked DSDs Mum if she would consider joint residency if we moved close enough, she went crazy and suggested that DH was trying to take DSD away from her and that DH was trying to get out of paying her maintenance

DSD kept pleading for more time with us so it went to mediation. The only argument DSDs Mum had against it was 'but I'm her Mummy'. Both the mediators asked for any objections other than this and she had none, DH works flexible hours, has never been abusive in any way, never goes to the pub when he could be spending time with the DCs. I am a SAHM with a strong relationship with DSD and we had moved 50 miles to be within a mile of the school that DSD attends. It was agreed that DSD would have a week with us and a week with her Mum.

Over a year later DSD is the most settled and happy I have seen her. She loves her time in our family, with her step-sisters, half brother and dogs, then she loves being at her Mums house with her Mums DP and the individual attention she gets there.

Please tell me why this is wrong?

Sweeping statements like those in the OP are just crap, all cases must be judged on individual circumstances, starting at 50/50 and adjusted from there.

lindsay, not that it is relevant but off the top of my head foxes, penguins, some fish and I think mice.

We have evolved beyond basic biological drives lindsay. I live in a house not a cave and have a modern man not a neanderthal.

My dd turns to whoever is nearest when she is hungry, tired or upset.

Are you telling me that my dd is unhappy because I go out to work and my dp stays at home with her.

Agreed, lindsaygii.

well, i'm relieved that those of you who do have a 50-50 are able to cope with your time apart from your kids, otherwise I guess you'd all be pretty miserable.

but i do think the shuttling is not great for kids. betadad, your arrangement sounds good while both parents are single, but what happens when they both meet new partners and their family expands?

i'm actually quite jealous of those of you who have dps who are such great parents. For the record, dd's dad left me when i was pregnant and so has never lived in the same household as her. HE moved away from the area when she was six months old. So naturally i'm opposed to his ridiculous notion of 50-50 now. (and those posters who say parents should 'work at their relationships: fuck right off)

but if i'd been lucky enough to meet a decent enough bloke in the first place, then yes, maybe i would consider some sort of shared residency, but i'd be more inclined to say 65 - 35, so that the child had a 'main' home and I still contend that should be with the mother. I am not a bigot nor making a mockery of feminism. I think that most women would agree that maternal love is the fiercest form of expression they've ever known, and is far, far deeper than a mere social construct. I have no way of proving it is deeper than paternal love. I just think it is. I repeat: I grew my baby, I fed her, I know every single of inch of her. I'm sure some of you dads can preempt your children's needs in the way a mother can treat a temperature and hold their hair back when they're puking. And if you have got 50 -50, then I certainly hope* you can.

Of course there will always be some crap mothers. But in those cases, hopefully the child would articulate they would rather be with the father.
Interesting to hear all your views though.

with the best interests of the child always coming first.

(No idea what happened there)

Morosky Don't put words in my mouth. I'm talking in a general way, and you're making a personal point about yourself. Also, I take it from your post, that you two live together? So your children are in your house?

As for evolution, you might not live in a cage, but you are still an animal, specifically, a higher mammal of the primate family, and you aren't that much different to them. Children want their mums, by and large, and so by and large, that's where they should be.

I know of families where parents are separated and kids live with dad, I know of families where parents are together and dad is the home-person. They're all fine. In fact, they're great.

But anecdotal evidence does not change the wider significance of male and female roles and the differences between them.

bratnav, if your dsd is as happy as you say, then fantastic well done.

but my heart absolutely goes out to her poor mother

If we are talking biology I just don't see (once you have given birth and stopped breastfeeding) why my having breasts, a vagina and a lack of facial hair makes me a better parent. I am aware that dp has a huge penis and he does get stubble but neither of them get in the way of his parenting skills.

It sounds very unfair to me that one parent is the main breadwinner and is then told that because they were out at work they can't be an equal parent. This has happened when a man had been 'househusband' and the poor woman couldn't get equal custody-it happens all the time with men.

OP, by the same token you should also feel sorry for her father who has to go a whole week without seeing her too

You seem to have the same skewed viewpoint as DSDs Mum, that the Mother somehow always has a stronger bond that the Father. She challenged me as to how I would feel if my 2 DDs spent a week with their Dad every other week, I honestly said that I would be happy as long as it made the DDs happy, she snorted.

But parenting is personal lindsay.

I was responding to your statement:

Females have evolved to be the carer, and all young turn to their mother/aunt/grandmother group for care when they are hungry/upset/lonely.

That's the reason. The children prefer it. The children. THE CHILDREN.>>

Well all children clearly don't, I don't even have to leave my house to know that is not true.

I only have one child, I am divorced and do not live with her father. I live with my partner who is dd's stepfather. If dp and I were to split I think the only reason I would be entitled to custody is because I am the biologicsl parent ( quite a key reason though ) Dp is actually a far betterm hand on nurturng parent that me.

Children, past the age of breastfeeding, want their parents, if both parents are allowed to play an equal role.

This is eye-opening. I must tell DH how inferior he is by nature as a parent, and how all children, including ours, prefer being with their mothers because men can't nurture. He will be most surprised.

And if there is so much concern about the children in 50/50 res, why isn't it possible to consult them as see what they want?

dittany-no he didn't before the split as DSDs Mum wanted to be a SAHM, so he worked FT in order to support that, as happens a lot. DH shares all the childcare with me as he works for himself from home, so although I do some solo childcare, he does too.