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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed that i couldn't take pictures of my son in his nativity today?

66 replies

SleepyDopeyGrumpy · 15/12/2009 15:17

Was really excited as ds2 was in the choir so was up front the whole time and thought i would get some really great pictures!

However we are told once seated that we cannot take pictures but we can buy the dvd once its done for £5.

Now i understand that some parents might not want there kids showing up on facebook or some such but if the pictures are kept for family or yourself then whats the harm in capturing somebody else in the picture?

So no pictures of him singing. No group shots and the only way i can see him in his costume again is to fork out for the dvd for myself as well as my mum who desperately wanted to see it but couldn't.

Im just a little peeved especially as ds1 has his nativity tonight and school have said go for it take as many pictures as you like!

OP posts:
itsmeolord · 15/12/2009 15:59

Hulababy and uphill;- dd's school started the dvd thing because parents were getting uppity about no filming policy and were bringing in cameras anyway.

They consulted with all parents who were affected, ie any parent of a child who was subject to protection and we agreed that a dvd could be done by the school with the childrens faces blanked out where applicable. The dvd is previewed by the parents of those children before being released.

If parents wish to take a photo of their child in a costumt they are allowed to do this after the performance, there is a system where a slip goes home for the parents'guardians to sign if they wish to take a photo of child in costume. They are then told where to meet their childs yr group after the performanace. (ie which classroom.)
Any children that cannot have photos taken can be collected immediately after the performance, if it is during school hours they are allowed to go out to break/lunch early.

Kathyis12feethighandbites · 15/12/2009 16:08

I went to a Nativity play where photography was allowed at a nursery my dd was at a few years ago and it was an absolute nightmare. Parents being completely frenzied, leaning right forward, elbowing their way to the front, standing on chairs so they could get the best shot. I think somehow when some people (I say some -but it was probably a majority!) get behind a camera they forget there are other people around. It was impossible for the non-pushing parents to see anything and quite frightening for the children. Absolutely horrible.
Whereas at dd's reception Nativity today there was a single camera operated by the headmaster and the audience were actually being an audience and watching like they should and it was so much more civilised.
Never underestimate how badly some normally considerate people will behave when their darling dcs are concerned....

upahill · 15/12/2009 16:10

Itsmeolord. Thanks for that. I wasn't sure how it worked as I hadn't come across the 'no photo' rule as our schools and previously nurserys allow photos and videoing.

OtterInaSkoda · 15/12/2009 16:11

YABU

I bloody hate all that jostling to get the best shot and the sea of brightly lit LED screens. And of course all those flashes going off must be really offputting for the dc. My objections have bugger all to do with CP and everything to do with it being a pain in the arse.

VirginPeachyMotherOfSpod · 15/12/2009 16:16

There's a kid I know subject to CP rules: he's in foster care and if he is found by parents- well I dread to think

He doesn't do the DVD'sdressrehearsal so no issues, but no pictures at the main cioncert

Whilst I objected to £12 for a DVD for the concert of a nativity I was barred from attending (sibling ban) I accept why the ruling was amde; more so this year as yesterday my friend went into witness protection from her DH and may not be seen by me again

spookycharlotte121 · 15/12/2009 16:21

I know people who foster kids who are not in contact with their parents for safety reasons. If someone put those pics on facebook then it would totally comprimse the security of their care so i fully understand why its not allowed. It is annoying though.

sdr · 15/12/2009 16:31

Agree with all the reasons, both child protection, off-putting for children with cameras going off and annoying for all to see with parents standing up.

Our school has no photos during the play - but at the end they get all the children on stage for a group photo. You get much better shots as you can get closer.

Then any children with CP requirements or epilepsy can be quietly taken aside.

Original poster
SleepyDopeyGrumpy · 15/12/2009 16:41

Back again :-)

So i asked the head teacher while i was picking ds2 up and she said it was a matter of licencing. They had licencing for filming but not for photos.

Also the dvd has no form of facial blurring or anything in and non of the kids are in costumes obscuring their faces.

Was a little more peeved to find out some of the parents had ignored the rule anyway and have taken pics during the play without being noticed!

Oh well whats done is done and i do hope that the parents at ds1's school this evening remember to stay in there seats, not use flashes and not be a nuisance when taking photos as i will make sure i do after reading this thread!

OP posts:
monkeyfeathers · 15/12/2009 17:01

DS1's school had a no photos and videos policy, but were producing their own DVD (for about £10). I don't actually have a problem with that: it stops inconsiderate parents from preventing others from seeing the show, it means the kids can perform without flashes from the audience and it raises some money for the school. They didn't charge for tickets or limit numbers per child. They did refuse to let you take young kids, which did annoy me- especially when I went to loads of trouble to make sure I could go without DS2 only to find that other people had brought their baby. They were sitting right next to the video camera (and the head teacher) too, so the DVD will probably have baby noise on it anyway. That's a completely separate issue though.

The thing that did annoy me was that the school frankly lied about the reasons for the ban. They claimed 'data protection', which is utter bullshit especially as they gave out a full cast list (naming all the children) by way of a ticket. It couldn't even have been child protection, since they'd named all the children and are selling DVDs. Why couldn't they just explain the real reasons (which are not unreasonable in the least) instead of making up officious nonsense?

SnowyBoff · 15/12/2009 17:01

Have a look at this:

www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/taking_photograph sinschools.pdf

As the Information Commissioner's Office clarified way back in 2005, taking photos of your children (and any others standing next to them) in school plays is permissible under the terms of the Data Protection Act.

The licensing argument made by the Head Teacher for not taking pictures of your own children doing things sounds very dubious altogether and I can't find any basis in law. I rather wonder if this a protectionist practice aimed at forcing parents to spend money on official photos and DVDs, actually. It is tempting to reply, "Oh, that's fine but we charge a £50 appearance fee for little Johnny every time he appears in a commercial video. I'll send you my invoice on Monday, shall I?" but that wouldn't go down very well, I imagine .

There may indeed be eminently sensible and practical reasons not to have 100 people all trampling over each other with digital cameras and camcorders in an attempt to capture their offspring for posterity, but it annoys me that schools are invoking laws that don't exist in order to legitimise their desire to regulate and control parents.

monkeyfeathers · 15/12/2009 17:05

Iicensing would also be a reasonsble reason. That'd be to do with copyright not data protection, so DS's school would still be talking mince.

Original poster
SleepyDopeyGrumpy · 15/12/2009 17:07

Oh well done detective snowy!

I thought it sounded a little off at the time but couldn't think why they wouldn't just tell us this im sure people would have accepted easily enough if they explained how off putting it is.

Leaving to go to ds1's show in 20 mins! Im excited this year he actually knows all the words and moves so will be interesting for me to see him perform!

OP posts:
monkeyfeathers · 15/12/2009 17:10

SnowyBoff: the spurious invocation of importsnt sounding laws is what got me. I've had data protection training at work, so I knew bullshit when I saw it.

The licensing might be to do with the script/music they'd bought in. That said, photographs don't capture any aspect of script or music...

Why can't they just explain it's because some parents are always inconsiderate?

veryconfusedandupset · 15/12/2009 17:10

I would take photo anyway - it is your child, how can they stop you?

Original poster
SleepyDopeyGrumpy · 15/12/2009 17:12

Veryconfused its over with now it was this morning and ds1's school are letting me take pictures but i didn want ds2's first show caught in pictures they make such lovely gifts to relatives far away!

OP posts:
Pikelit · 15/12/2009 18:02

I'm sick to death of every event turning into amateur Photoshoot Night. Buy the sodding DVD and be glad that the restrictions on photography means that everyone is going to get a chance to see their child perform.

HEIFERmerrychristmas · 15/12/2009 18:08

At DDs school someone takes a load of photos at the dress rehersal (they try to get at least one shot of every child) and then sell them on the day of the plays for 50p each. I managed to get 2 fab ones of DD, 1 action shot and 1 profile shot so was more than happy with that, especially as I forgot my camera anyway.

I think this cut down the problem of pushy parents, although I could just be lucky with having nice polite parents at DD school

upahill · 16/12/2009 09:20

I would not buy a dvd if my child was only in the chorus or something very minor. You know where they just stick a costume on and the kids just sing a song. My DS had that role this year! I took one picture of him rolling his eyes about looking bored!! I an happy with that picture. No way would I pay to watch someones children be the star turn for the best part of an hour when mine would be on for 20 seconds at most.

MostHighlyFavouredLady · 16/12/2009 09:44

I don't understand this obsession with having a physical record of what you've seen - nothing can beat your own memory!

I once filmed a nativity (quietly and from my own seat), but felt slightly short-changed, as if I was detatched from the whole thing.

I normally have a little cry at these things, but wasn't moved to tears at all - the camera was a barrier between me and what I was there to watch.

Plus am fully in agreement re. pita photographers.

My youngest DS's nativity is held in a church, and I find it shocking and disrespectful when I see people prowling round, grinning and chatting to each other across the isles, and pretty much ignoring the performance the children and teachers have worked hard to produce, concentrating instead on their 'shots'.

I'm an atheist, but I still think if you're in a church you should behave appropriately and have respect for those who do believe, as well as displaying some sort of reverence for what the children are doing.

< Dreading the carol service this after >

MostHighlyFavouredLady · 16/12/2009 09:45

isles = aisles

SnowyBoff · 16/12/2009 10:06

It helps if you see parents as your clients rather than the enemy.

If I were a head teacher, I would get the most skilled member of staff or PTA to take decent photos of everybody's children at the dress rehearsal, using good lighting, then stick the photos up on a board near where the parents pick their children up, and get the PTA to take orders on the night, selling prints for about 25p or so. That would make a small profit whilst keeping things affordable. Parents would get better photos as well. Spare photos could go in the school photo album.

On the night, I wouldn't ban parents from taking photos and so on, but I'd be inclined to provide a special area for it with good vantage points (like a press enclosure), but then ask anyone not using the special area to be a bit discreet and not bob up and down too much like yoyos.

I reckon that would let some people follow their natural inclinations to archive every move for posterity whilst not intruding on other people's experience.

upahill · 16/12/2009 10:08

I like that idea Snowy...

yummyyummyyummy · 16/12/2009 10:09

At our school they have sometimes said daft things like that and the parents ignore it and take pictures anyway.What are they going to do about it ?

Tortington · 16/12/2009 10:09

i went to nephews mativity play and we were told that we could take pictures so long as we don't put them up on any networking sites.

its money making bullshit.

VirginPeachyMotherOfSpod · 16/12/2009 19:35

I got ds3's dvd today

He only has one line, 'H is for hillside' but you see, 2 years ago he couldn't talk, last year he needed 2 TA's right by him just to stay there, this year he transferred to snu and he and one other were able to do the ms play. So that one line is everything a play could be for me,and Dh couldn't attend.