To not want dd round on christmas day (sorry long)

[hetherine]

Thing is my 20yr old dd is very manipulative/verbally abusive/completely self centred and has been at last diagnosed with a condition called 'Attachment Disorder' (brought about by a misdiagnosed middle ear infection when she was a baby. strange but completely true) and also a personality disorder.
The level of contact we have with each other is sporadic at bestand after appealing for help from proffessional bodies have hit a brick wall because they will only offer family counselling if dd agreesand dd has said that she has agreed but having spoken to the relevant proffessionals have discovered that she's lied about it.

Thing is I love her dearly and I really want a good relationship with her but i just can't cope with all of her manipulating/schemeing/lying/abusive ways.

please help

I agree with kat2907, the ear infection thing may have begun a process whereby you ceased to bond with your DD when she was younger but it was nevertheless your responsibility to try at the time to fathom why the bonding wasn't happening and to address these issues. Could you have spoken to a doctor or psychologist 10 years ago perhaps? This may have helped you both then, whereas this information now merely provides and excuse for givng up on her; because giving up on her is what you are doing isn't it.

You are not going to make her difficulties any easier in doing this and her behaviour will only become worse/more ingrained as a result.

Whilst I agree that just because a person is one's mother or father, sister, brother or daughter, etc. it does not automatically mean one has to tolerate awful behaviour, I also believe that if as a parent one has contributed to the dreadfulness of one's own offspring's behaviour then that parent has a duty to deal with that person with tolerance and understanding as that person tolerates the result of their own upbringing. So long as the (now adult) child is trying to understand themselves and moderate their own behaviour in the light of adult experience then the love must continue to tangibly flow from parent to child, particularly if that has not always been the case throughout childhood.

Please dont leave her on her own at Xmas. Ok so it might be a rubbish day for you if she kicks off (but she might not) but weigh that up against how she will feel if her mum doesnt want her at Xmas and there's no contest imo.

agree with kat2907, i've heard of undiagnosed ear difficulties affecting children's behaviour and subsequently the bonding process, but the y can't cause isssues of this severity all on their own i'm afraid.

Attachment disorders and personality disorders are due, either fully or in part to a combination of genetic prediposition and parenting. they don't happen all by themselves.

She sounds incrediby unhappy with very low self-esteem and maladaptive coping behaviours and despite your proclamations of love I think you sound quite blaming. I think you need to take some resposibility for your daughters difficulties and change your behaviour towards her.

YANBU to be anxious about spending christmas with her but YABU to not invite her. As other posters have said set clear and unambiguous boundaries with definite consequences and see how she responds. Good luck.

my step-son goes through this rejection by his mother she openly admits she does not like him and prefers her younger son the damage she has done is unbelievable but he knows he is loved by us you could not meet a more placid boy/man hes 21 but emotionally he is probably near my 14 year old daughter because of this treatment please don't do this to her.

Oh God the personality disorder completely passed me by. My opinion doesn't change but I see that life might be incredibly hard with a DD with PD and AD.

Still, personality disorders can be 'managed' if not 'treated'. I hope you/she are getting support from a psychologist or the community mental health team.

My daughter is very difficult, i just know she is going to sulk her way through xmas day with us, she doesn't have the problems yours has though, but heaven help me - I would be devestated if she didnt come to me at xmas because i didn't want her here?

My heart aches for people who have no one to go to on xmas day, it must be an awful awful thing.

I cant understand why you posted it this really, did you expect people to say, yeah, dont have her, shes trouble - Its not your fault that you haven't been able to manage her, and mental illness can be impossible, but please please please don't turn this little girl away at christmas - its ONE DAY FGS, one day that you can make your daughter feel loved, even if she ruins it - so what, shes your daughter. If she had other family to go to, then i would be very clear, you come here you behave, but shes not well - would you turn her away if she were physically disabled?

This is so hard, but I think ijustwanttoaskaquestion made a really excellent point. Your DD is ill, and if she had a physical need that made your day more difficult (mobility issues, stomach tube, colostomy bag, whatever)you would never dream of telling her not to come (I hope ).

So maybe what you need to do is try to focus your mind and/or ask some advice on how not to let her potential bad behaviour hurt YOU or your DP. Sounds like you could use some help with coping strategies for engaging with her while keeping mentally strong, rather than attempting to disengage from her even more.

Sory YABU. I know it's difficult, But she has a condition that is not her fault and it won't be very nice for her if her Mother doesn't want her at Christmas.
My 20 year old can be manpiulative at times but I would nevre stop her coming home for Christmas.

Could you and your dp agree to have your daughter on Xmas day but have a seperate, private Xmas celebration on another day? I think if this were me I would just do it but have no expectations for the day whatsoever - just brace myself to get through it as best as possible - but I want to have soemthing else to look forward to instead.

Ask yourself if you could really enjoy yourself knowing you didn't invite her and she may be on her own.

Chances are you would be miserable...so just invite her. At least you can rest knowing you did the right thing.

Looking at it from your daughters view point...being rejected by you mother on Christmas day would surely feel like a massive kick in the teeth.

I think you need to let her know she will be welcome, and then pray she makes alternative arrangements and is happy with those.

I think kat2907 has given some excellent advise here.

I don't think this is about Christmas at all. As others have said ear infections do not cause attachment disorders. Attachment problems are rooted in problems in the mother and child relationship in early life. If a baby's needs are met and she is nurtured and loved she will grow to learn to trust that adults can take care of her and the mother will be rewarded by a responsive baby and the bonding process will be well on the way and this is the making of secure attachment patterns. On the other hand if the baby's needs are not met and the mother is unable to be physically and emotionally available to the baby, the baby will learn that adults are not to be trusted and this is the making of an insecure attachment pattern.

Children who have insecure attachment problems (even young babies) will try to organise things so that they get the attention that they need and sometimes this works. I know this sounds a bit far fetched but it is actually true. For example a child who is being brought up by abusing parents will learn to lie very still in the cot or pram in an effort not to attract attention. It is called "frozen awareness" or "frozen watchfulness" and I remember as a young social worker reading about this and not believing it, until I actually saw it and it was very chilling I can tell you.

I have no idea what psychologist the OP has been talking to or what she has read but there is a greta amount of confusion/distortion here. I have no idea what happened to the OP and her daughter in early life, but I do know that attachment problems can cause huge difficulties throughout the lifespan. It sounds like the daughter has only just been "diagnosed" and I don;t think that is very helpful. As others have said it may be more of a personality disorder, who knows.

Just thought I wanted to add this in case anyone parent got worried that ear infections could cause all the problems that the OP mentioned.

Before my db got treatment for his mental illness my parents did what Acinoyx suggested - they just got through the day and saw us later. We spent xmas with elderly FIL miles away.

I really can understand where you are coming from hetherine, coping with a mentally ill adult child abusing you is incredibly difficult, but from what you've said the consequences of not inviting her will cause more problems.

I have a friend who doesn't speak to her mum and has never forgotten a time when she was told not to visit on Christmas Day.

NanaNina, Forgive me but you are wrong undiagnosed Painful illnesses EG ear infections can cause this.
The other reason I know this is A) I have not nor ever been an abusive parent as i have always been there for DD and have gone to extraordinary lengths to try and get help ansd support for Dd.
And B) when my ds was born afrer a few weeks was diagnosed with 'Failure to thrive' and despite my damndest efforts in taking him doctors every day and living at the hospital when he was admitted. he sadly died and postmortem results showed that he had been suffering from a severe middle ear infection for some time and the doctors had missed it. the doctors just reguarded me as an overemotional parent instead of actually listening to me and examining my ds properly.

Along with reading matter given to me by ddd's psycologist(after much pleading on My part I might add) said reading matter has also been coroborated by my own research online

If anyone thinks that this has been an easy question to think let alone ask then you are wrong. Its not that I want a happy Xmas (if that was my one true desire then i would be truly selfish and deserve all the bad fortune that could ever come my way) but i'm more interested in not allowing my rekationship with dd to become any worse than it already is. I'm trying to protect her from herself in a way because I want a good positive loving relationship with dd and am desperately trying to preserve what little we have by not creating a warzone or otherwise unbridgeable divide.

Imight ad that she has had a lot of support in the past and still has the opportunity for help the problem is that A) she thinks she doesn't need it. and B0 the help and support she has been given has either been rejected out of hand by her or completely ignored by her.
Meanwhile Ihave had very little in the way of support from anyone because all the focus was on dd to deal with her behaviour rather than to see what's the reason for said behaviour. Had that been done then perhaps things may have been better for dd.

Her happiness and stabilty and health are very important to me I,m just trying to find the best solution for all of us in what is an awful gigantic bloody mess

I do not know much about personality disorders but would the invitation of christmas on the grounds that she completelky some kind of family therapy work? It seems a bit late in the day to be suggesting it though

I am really sorry about your son too

and is her Father around? and what does he say/do etc?

This is one of the saddest threads I've read in a long time.

I think it is very cruel to suggest that the OP is not being truthful about her daughters ear infection. Why would she lie? I have not heard of this, but i can certainly see how it would be true, but this thread reads like people are saying it is because of "issues" surrounding her parenting. There are clearly some very deep and unresolved problems going on here.

hetherine i am so very sorry about your little boy, how truly sad for you. Have you had any support for this? Even if it were many years ago?? I think you have many many things to talk about - especially that your wee lad had an undiagnosed inner ear problem: You must have so many emotions tied up in this.

Its so easy for us to say, yes, you must have her - i did so myself in an earlier post.

Sadly, i think you have not done yourself many favours with your thread, because of the wording of it - and posting in AIBU, not a good idea. Try posting in mental health section and you will get more support.
I don't have any answers for you - but my heart tells me that you should have her for christmas day but don't expect too much, you are putting yourself and your daughter under too much pressure - all this pressure for a Nigella lawson happy xmas with smiling hostess and xmas dinner listening to the queens speech - its all bullshit, most peoples xmases are fraught - you only have to look on here to see that.

I have suffered with depression, the one thing my counsellor told me that has stuck and is my mantra - i dont have to be perfect! Neitehr do you, neither does your daughter, and neither does your xmas.

She has mental health issues, so is manipulative - no mental health issues with my DD and she is manipulative and spoilt and does my head it, we dont get on for too much time - im a bit anxious about xmas day, but i want her here - it will be fine. Just don't expect the holly and the ivy - go with the flow.

Please please talk to someone, you have lots of pain that you need to deal with, for your own sake, i wonder if you can't really help your DD until you help yourself

Best wishes xx

Nananina, your post about "frozen awareness" made me cry - how awful

Hetherine - I was in no way suggesting that you had not been a good parent and I'm sorry as I should have made that clearer. I was simply trying to give the facts about attachment disorders. Maybe the "attachment disorder" diagnosis was incorrect. Ijwatoask - in NO way was I suggesting the OP was lying - I should have made that more clear and I apologise. I run courses for foster and adoptive parents on attachment difficulties and I just felt I had to put the record straight. As you say it is more likely that the OPs daughter has mentalhealth problems and has been wrongly diagnosed.

Ijwtoask - yes it chilled me to the bone too. Don't want to hi jack this thread but I think we all under estimate what goes on at a sub conscious level with even very young babies and children, to try to keep themselves safe in unsafe situations.

No her dad isn't around much and when he is he's useless.
and ijuastwanttoaskaquestion. I take your point about AIBU and wording, but i find it hard to write in a way that adequetely describes everything. no I've not had much in the way of support for myself but i'm on along waiting list for couselling of the heavy duty variety.

and it's not that I want everything to be perfect tolerable would do but one of DDs strange quirks is that she always feels the need for an escape route generally because she's bored and also she has difficulty in handling the fact that christmas is an 'everybody day' in that no one person is in the lime light because the only topic of conversation she has is herself.
On the latter i have tried all there is,ie just trying to watch a film of her choice companiably/ doing something like making a meal together or cakes/ trying unsuccessfully to steer conversation round to more neutral subjects etc all to no avail.
Please believe me when I say I love her coz I truly do.
Oh and her having Xmas here is not conditional on her agreeing to family therapy.

Oh and as for talking to doctors and psycologists ten years ago well I did thet just didn't believe what i was telling them was true untill Iasked her teachers to support me which thankfully where fantastic and really tried thier best. But the medical proffessionals are reluctant too consider the idea if childhood mental illness as they call it 'labelling' All i can say is at least there's not this problem about physical health coz otherwise it would be disatrous

can anybody explain for the sake of clarity the link between ear infection and mental health problems please?

found this quote:

"A recurring ear infection, in which the infant is repeatedly in pain that the mother can't soothe, or if it affects the way the caregiver interacts with the child, might interrupt the attachment process"