That old chestnut again (earrings) but this took the biscuit.

[ijustwanttoaskaquestion]

I couldnt help myself it just came out of my mouth "oh my God, why would you do that??"

Went out for dinner with DP and DD, family resturant, hungry horse - lots of families. Anyway, There were we, DD (4) looking like an urchin child - unbrushed hair, scruffy clothes from being a cat in the school nativity play. Sat down was a perefectly presented family, little boy sat with the requisite spiked hair, spotless clothes. Beautiful little baby, i mean beautiful, still with a bobbly head, must have been no more than two weeks old, if that. So, being the broody mare that i am, im cooing like mad - only to see the biggest pair of gold studs in the poor little mites ears . I was visibly horrified, gasped, walked off muttering, why would you do that?? Spent the rest of my meal getting daggers from the mother.

They were very English, there was no cultural reason for the mutilation of their child. What is wrong with them?? FFS - i cried when my DD had her injections, most mums hate it but of course we do it, its for their own good - but what justification for firing an object, bigger than any needle through the thick skin of your babies ear? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY????

More importantly i feel, who the hell did it?? FFS? Can you really turn up at Claires accessories on your way home from the labour ward with your baby requesting them to be peirced??

I was 10 before i was allowed earrings - i passed out from the shock of the pain.
As for the argument that the baby wont really feel it or remember it - oh, stick it up your arse!!! ~I was actually a member of an anti tail docking organisation and read a paper by a respected vet that suggested that neonates actually feel pain more acutely than older dogs - i see no reason why this doesnt translate to humans.

Why is the peircing of children still leagal?? Its illeagal to have facial peircings done under the age of 16 (isnt it?) so why can we continue to do this to young babies - shame on them

"I couldn't care less if my DD gets her ears pierced when she wants to.

But I won't be letting her know that. I will refuse until she pleads, tantrums, bargains and eventually acknowledges my all-round wonder and greatness, at which point I will 'give in', and let her get them done."

Seems quite illogical and pointless though. If you "couldn't care less" if she wants to get it done then why the big drama and play-acting? Seems like people feel that there should be some major outward hysteria to ear-piercing even though everybody inwardly know that it's a total non-issue.

i dont think it makes you a chav or an abuser because your DD has her ears peirced, i do however think its an awful thing to do to a baby.

i have my ears peirced and i have tattoos, my DD1 has lots of peircings (most of which have closed up - thank god she never went for those awful bloody huge hole things) and tattoos, which i have paid for some of them. But it was HER choice to have them.

I just htink its such an unnecessary thing to have done to a child - dangerous - infection, getting earing caught, god forbid baby earing comes off in cot, or toddler pulls earing out of ear and swallows it, etc etc yep, all pretty unlikely but possible - aint worth it, doesnt look nice.

I think it should be illegal in children under, oh i dont know, ten, or whatever age they can decide for themselves that they want a hole in their ear.

nothingofthesort - i think the poster means it has to be like that, for the rite of passage Child has to feel they have won a battle to get them Makes them feel more grown up see.

Mine were done at 11 or 12, I think.

My mum had resisted it to the last ditch, & when she finally caved in, after months of telling me it was common/ugly/would make my ears drop off, she had hers done too!

My ds is 5, & would quite like to have his ears pierced. Personally, I don't see it as a big deal, but dh is very anti, so we've agreed on a 'united front' until he hits secondary school.

I think there's an enormous gulf between agreeing to your dc having their ears pierced, at whatever age, & unilaterally deciding to have them pierced before your dc is old enough to understand, much less want it done. They aren't your ears, you don't get to pierce them.

Agree the 'chav' comments aren't especially helpful.

Agree with Raven - and had an almost identical experience in having my own ears pierced

I think it's indefensible to inflict a painful mutilation on a baby for the sake of vanity. End of.

awaits flaming.

I have got my DD's ear pierced , she will be 2 in January. she is also wearing REAL diamond studs too!!

Chavtastico!!!

I think you were being very rude when you muttered something loud enough for the woman to hear. Its none of your business what other people do

rather be rude than cruel

but i honestly don't believe that what i have done to my dd is cruel. she didn't cry so it obviously didn't hurt, we don't have to worry about her maybe not wanting them because she loves them and always has done, she's 4 now and she wears (very small) hoops that come out easily when pulled so her ears won't get ripped, i agree there is a safety issue so i have them this way (i would much rather her lose hundreds of earrings than rip her ears)

people who say this is downright wrong are entitled to their opinion but surely that means i am also entitled to mine without people feeling they should 'say something' if they saw my child, it is not illegal and i doubt it will be made illegal either so lets just live and let live, its not killing anyone is it?

"Seems quite illogical and pointless though. If you "couldn't care less" if she wants to get it done then why the big drama and play-acting?"

Why? Because battles will be fought between parent and child, it's the law. By making my dd think that the ear piercing battle is very important to me, she will feel all the better for having 'won' the battle. This keeps the stakes low for the time being IYSWIM.

If I let her have her ears pierced without a battle, she will need some other issue to fight about, probably one I actually care about. There will be many battles.

This way, we both win; why would I sacrifice this glorious rite of passage (ie, fighting with mum and winning) by getting her ears pierced as a baby? Makes no sense to me.

All my children have earings, some had them done when they were a bit older dd2 was 11, dd3 was 9 ,my twins had them done at 2.DS4 was asking for it so he could be "like dad" ,dd4 would put stickers on her ears - any stickers. Walking round asda with toddlers wearing Ffyfe or jaffa logos in their lugs is not a good look...the small gold studs they wear are much better.

Is it a particularly British thing to hate pierced ears. They don't even raise a comment in OZ. You either have pierced ears or you don't. End of story.

Goddess I don't have my ears pierced i don't think it means anything though other than I was never interested in having them pierced.

BTW, only coz you asked , I see your point

"Is it a particularly British thing to hate pierced ears"

TBH I'd think that Britain is the world's capital of body piercing!

Any procedure that breaks the skin is not risk free. I am talking as a professional that has seen cases of hepatitis and bacteral infection as a result of ear piercing. The risk is small but it exists, and if there is an infection, the range of treatments suitable for a baby are smaller than for an older child or adult.

Earlier I also said that I objected to the lack of informed consent from the child for something that is not a medical necessity - it is just to satisfy the vanity of the parents.

I am not anti piercing, but I get frustrated with the ignorance of people. It displays a lack of education on the part of parents that think piercing a baby's ears is okay.

"lack of education on the part of parents" ?

• , so if you get your childs ears pierced your not educated?

Most people who get their babies or childs ears are very particular about the hygene and cleaning of the piercings.Unfortunatly some do get infections, but it is a rare. Some kids get similar infections from falling over and grazing a knee or elbow. I think ,if a parent has doubts over their childs ability to resist infection or heal from a small accidental wound then they should not get their childs any piercings...a compromised immune system should not be subjected to further strain.However , to a healthy child piercings should not cause a problem ,if they are properly cared for.

Flockwallpaper, how precious you sound. Yes, you may be a professional in which case you would see thousands of infections etc. from numerous causes. It's the same as a chef not wanting to eat out because they know what really goes on in the kitchen. Or a home sewer who doesn't buy designer clothes because they know they can be made for a few cents at home. My DD had her ears pierced at aged ten because she asked for them as a birthday present. At 25 she still only wears tiny diamond studs or small diamond studded hoops. She also is a professional with two degrees and wouldn't dream of denigrating someone by calling them uneducated and ignorant simply because they don't share the same ideals as her.

I said that the risk is small, but it is still a risk. What is the benefit in this case for the child? I don't see any, so why do it?

I can't see how any intelligent, educated person would make that choice for their baby.

coralanne, there is a huge difference between a ten year old having their ears peirced and a baby. I think you have misunderstood FWs post. I had my ears done at ten, i think DD1 must have been of similar age, or a tad older because she wasn't particularly interested - lol, that soon changed, shes a tattood pincushion now! But shes not a BABY - this thread was about the peircing of babies ears which imo is something completely different. I would guess that ten is probably the average age that people have their ears done and i guess most women have them, FW was not commenting on people having earrings at all.

I dont think FW comes across as precious at all - i feel the same as she does, i just cannot get my head around why people think its ok to do this - yes, the risk of infection is minimal, but its there. Also, the whole business of twisting the earrings when they are first done is painful, i remember mine really hurting.

Agree with IJWTAAQ, very few people have a problem with a 10 yr old having their ears pierced. It'a small babies who have no idea what is happening to them. Seen too many babies screaming in the windows of Clares for anyone to tell me it's not cruel and unnecessary.
I come from a culture where babies ears are pierced at birth, but my mother is english and refused for any of us to have it done until we were old enough to make the decision ourselves.

I let DD have hers done at 10 the first time and even then she had a horrible accident with them and we ended up an hour in a&e getting her ear sorted out. She has just had them done again just before her 12th birthday,

Just another short note. No I didn't misunderstand FWS post. My DD has 2 DD's. Both had their ears pierced at 1 year old. Both have small diamond studs which I purchased as birthday presents for them. People were shocked that I paid a small fortune for diamonds for a one year old. They didn't comment about the actual piercing

probably because they were too polite!

IJWTAAQ, you have understood perfectly. I have no objection to children that have decided they want to have their ears pierced, because it is something they want to do. But I cannot understand why you would do this to a baby.

I'm sorry if my post came across as blunt.

Totally agree. I really hate to see babies with pierced ears.

I got mine done at 14; it not only hurt at the time but then got all infected, leaked fluid, then got all sore and crusty. And it was professionally done, not by one of my mates with a safety pin!