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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder why books aren't important anymore?

56 replies

Makipuppy · 03/12/2009 12:19

We've just got back from viewing one of the two state schools in the area for DN who will be starting there in January. This one has 1400 pupils and an excellent Ofsted report. I was amazed at the broad swathes of computers and the facilities for sports, drama, technology, woodwork, music, design etc. but fairly underwhelmed by the library. A nice room, with about 10 units holding, so we were told, 7k books which I don't actually think is very many at all. When I asked her she said they relied on donations. Why would they rely on donations in a school that clearly has the budget for amazing facilities?
Anecdotally, the last donation was from Ian McKellan who updated their gay literature from 1999. Surely this is all a bit haphazard?

Am I the only one that thinks books are a more reliable source of knowledge than the Internet?

OP posts:
alwayslookingforanswers · 03/12/2009 12:22

often funding comes in the form of funding for specific subjects/projects - not just one big pot to be used whereever they feel like it.

emsyj · 03/12/2009 12:26

I went to an excellent school (and did very well academically) and can't remember ever using the school library other than in 6th Form. Am pretty sure the 6th Form library was fairly sparsely stocked. The books I used at school were mostly given to us in class and were text books to refer to during lessons. We had an extensive collection of books at home and I regularly used the local public library. I wouldn't be that concerned about a school library having 'only' 7k books myself, but what do I know?
NB I am 30 and so internet was not used at school when I was there...

alwayslookingforanswers · 03/12/2009 12:29

actually come to think of it emsjy - I also went to an excellent school (was 7-18yrs - but quite small) where every single pupil went on to either Music College or University. I can't actually even remember a library after we'd moved buildings - I remember the one in the old building - wasn't very big though. I honestly can't remember a library in the new building (well it was still an old building - just new to us ) at all.........and I was a boarder. There must have been one /

I am also 30

Original poster
Makipuppy · 03/12/2009 12:29

So why is no funding being allocated to stocking a library?

Why wouldn't a school be given money specifically for books?

OP posts:
alwayslookingforanswers · 03/12/2009 12:30

oh no - I've remember the library - was tiny little room - can't have been much bigger than my DS2/3's bedroom

tethersend · 03/12/2009 12:31

There is nothing about a book which is intrinsically more valuable than a website- the same words written on a webpage are surely subject to the same critique as those written on paper?

Perhaps a library is easier to negotiate than the internet... but certainly no more valuable as a resource.

And alwayslooking is correct about the funding- it is always ringfenced for a particular project.

Skegness · 03/12/2009 12:31

I agree with you. I've been shocked at the library facilities of almost all the secondary schools I visited, concerned at the paltry numbers of books they contained and perturbed at the age and condition of said few books. Things seem to have gone backwards since I were a lass (in this respect, at least!)

tethersend · 03/12/2009 12:32

Why wouldn't a school be given money specifically for books?

Because there are precious few funding bodies who do so.

Hullygully · 03/12/2009 12:33

It is very bizarre. At my school 400 years ago, we had a fantastic library - and no one used it. But I did go to my local library every Saturday. Dunno why.

Original poster
Makipuppy · 03/12/2009 12:35

Emsy, you had lots of books at home, but not everyone does.

I know DN will get through without it and that there will be books handed out in class etc. but I would like to see reading promoted in schools. I was at school before calculators computers too, and spent lots of lunchtimes in the library .

I got an enormous amount of enjoyment from reading when I was in my teens and I just think it's sad that it's sidelined to make way for shiny computers...

OP posts:
Portofino · 03/12/2009 12:35

The only memory I have of the sizeable library at my Grammar School, was of the Slang Dictionary that we spent happy hours sniggering over. And i am an avid reader, who has loved books and reading since early childhood. I wouldn't worry too much about it...

Original poster
Makipuppy · 03/12/2009 12:36

Anyone can publish anything they like on the Internet whereas to publish a book you need to have convinced somebody that you know what you're talking about.

A very big difference I think.

OP posts:
Ewe · 03/12/2009 12:37

We had an ok library at my school, it was never really necessary to use it though so I can see why it isn't a spending priority.

Study at secondary level isn't very independent ime, pupils are drip fed the right information for essays from teachers, use the course textbooks and then a bit of internet research. Very little done in terms of broad reading, making own opinion/argument, therefore not a massive need for well stocked library.

tethersend · 03/12/2009 12:37

Surely you must see the advantages of the internet, though Makipuppy?

I mean..... you're using it now...

emsyj · 03/12/2009 12:38

When would the pupils use the library, though? We didn't have study periods til 6th Form, so we wouldn't have been able to use the library other than at lunch time, which nobody would want to do anyway - and by the time you've queued up for the canteen, sat and eaten lunch and got back to your form room, would give you about 10 minutes to pore over books in the library. The school buses would drop off at 8.40am and collect again 10 mins after lessons ended, so I think a well-stocked library at my school would have been a bit pointless, although of course schools do need money for text books. I'm not aware of any schools near me being short of funds to buy adequate text books, but if this is an issue it clearly needs to be addressed. That's not the same as stocking a library tho.

Ewe · 03/12/2009 12:38

"There is nothing about a book which is intrinsically more valuable than a website- the same words written on a webpage are surely subject to the same critique as those written on paper?"

I also disagree with this, on the internet you never really know how credible a source is, how independent it is, how the author came upon the information, whether or not it's true etc.

tethersend · 03/12/2009 12:39

"Anyone can publish anything they like on the Internet whereas to publish a book you need to have convinced somebody that you know what you're talking about."

I agree, you have to be much more discerning when researching on the internet- but being published doesn't mean you 'know what you're talking about'... Mein Kampf, anyone?

emsyj · 03/12/2009 12:40

I can see the point about schools promoting reading, but honestly I don't think having a well-stocked SCHOOL library is as important as having a well-stocked, free, and long-opening-hours LOCAL library. They were threatening to close our local one and I was mad as hell. It's well used by local children - and by DH and me!!!! That would get me angry, if all children weren't able to access a wide choice of books for free at a local library - but at school, wouldn't worry me.

ShutUpandDrinkYourMulledWine · 03/12/2009 12:40

most new educational material is coming out in electronic form - and it is very good

dp's school moved to a new site three years ago and there was no library in the new building - the books were all taken by the teachers or sent abroad. It does seem a shame not to encourage physical print reading - it won't appeal to all pupils but many would enjoy it and now they don't have the option

one problem is that books take up more physical space than the same amount of information (and more) contained electronically - I can imagine which resource a school would be more likely to go for given the money/space

NorkilyChallenged · 03/12/2009 12:41

I'm a bit that someone might think there was no difference between the internet and books. Books can still be wrong, obviously, but the internet needs a HUGE amount of caution when being used for education/information purposes.

Funding will be an issue here. And staffing (she says as a librarian with lots of school librarian friends...)

cory · 03/12/2009 12:41

Our library was ok-ish, but not large enough to cater for avid readers. We used the public library for this.

ShutUpandDrinkYourMulledWine · 03/12/2009 12:41

it's not just the internet though - good material by well-respected publishers is increasingly coming out in electronic form

tethersend · 03/12/2009 12:42

"I also disagree with this, on the internet you never really know how credible a source is, how independent it is, how the author came upon the information, whether or not it's true etc."

Fair point, ewe, but this can also be a problem with published books. Being in print is no guarantee of credibility or fact. David Irving springs immediately to mind.

alwayslookingforanswers · 03/12/2009 12:42

"Emsy, you had lots of books at home, but not everyone does. "

well that's what the public librar are for.

And if taught how to use it properly the internet can be just as good a resource. Even my DS1 (Yr4) is starting to learn how to search effectivel on the internet for research.

You could argue that they could be reading bullshit on the internet.........well I've read what (I cosider to be) bullshit in some published books too.

I suppose the "copy and paste" argument has/will come up.

Hands up who didn't use to hand copy chunks of text out of books in their essays as a kid???????

NorkilyChallenged · 03/12/2009 12:43

Ooh x-posted with some people saying the same thing.

Phew

Also, work in university libraries where the lack of information analysis skills among new undergrads is quite shocking sometimes (they will copy & paste any old thing from any old source without wondering about bias/reliability/source, etc)

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