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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

for thinking my friend's child is

40 replies

AliGrylls · 01/12/2009 11:54

DHs god daughter is a lovely girl. Really kind, really sweet and quite bright but quite disorganised and chaotic.

However, her dad seems to have it in his head that she is some kind of genius and capable of great things.

She got 3 As at A-level but had to re-take one of them. He thinks the 3 As confirms her greatness.

He has made her apply to Cambridge and Oxford Uni - DH told her and him that they are both really hard unis to get into. Anyway she has just found out that she did not even pass the entrance exam for Oxford and is apparently devastated.

Her dad seems to be determined that she should work for a city / magic circle law firm and ATM she also wants the same thing. I have told her that they can be really tough places to work and they are not all they are cracked up to be. Of course her father who has never worked in a city law firm thinks he knows better.

I would like to know am I being unreasonable in thinking he should not be pushing her so hard.

If she doesn't achieve everything he expects she will spend her life being devastated and will become really insecure, but I am not sure if I am just saying this because I worked in the city for a while and found it really tough.

OP posts:

DandyLioness · 01/12/2009 12:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

alittlebitshy · 01/12/2009 12:09

Have they changed it so you can apply to both Oxford and Cambridge? I thought you could only choose one or the other??!!

MaMight · 01/12/2009 12:11

I'm afraid I think YABU. Far better to shoot for the stars than decide from the start that you only have mediochre aims in life.

gorionine · 01/12/2009 12:12

I think YABU, on two counts:

Nothing wrong/uncommon with a parent aiming high for his children.

-You say "AIBU to think my friend's child is" when you OP goes on about her father pushing her, not herself thinking that she is top notch and boasting about it.

Leeka · 01/12/2009 12:12

If she's not up to it, she'll find out for hereself, but it sounds like she's trying hard to achieve high - a good thing. Be supportive, friendly and helpful, rather than derogatory; I'm sure this will benefit her much more than your present attitude.

talbot · 01/12/2009 12:18

You can't apply for both at the same time and the Oxford entrance obvciously isn't this time of time so it's all rather confusing.

Mishy1234 · 01/12/2009 12:26

It's well worth trying to aim high and maybe she is capable? You don't have to be a genius to get into Oxford or Cambridge, in fact most people I know who went weren't the most intelligent from my year.

From what I remember (and it may have changed), whether you got in or not was heavily based on your interview and not your school qualifications.

I think it's right to aim high and for her father to support her in that. She'll have loads of disappointments in life and failing her Oxford entrance exam is unlikely to be the worst. She just has to pick herself up, dust herself off and look at other options.

Oxford and Cambridge ARE great universities, but not an automatic ticket any more and depending on what you plan to study, not always the best place to go either.

I think you are sweet to be concerned, but BU.

Rhubarb · 01/12/2009 12:27

I'm going to go against the grain here, I think the OP has been misunderstood. She thinks that the dd is being pushed too hard and is concerned about what will happen if her father's high expectations are not achieved.

If he was devastated about her failing the Oxford entrance exam then he does sound as though he is being pushy.

I have met the pushy parents of kids and I have had nothing but the utmost sympathy for children who are put under such pressure to achieve at early ages.

HOWEVER, what you are doing is turning every positive on its head into a negative. You would be a far better support to the girl and her father if you stopped pushing the negatives and offered support instead. Tell her that you worked in the city and tell her your experiences, to prepare her, but don't discourage her. By pushing the negatives you are putting just as much pressure on her as her father - you are pressurising her to rebel and leaving her confused as to why you aren't being more supportive.

Be there for her. Make sure she knows that she is always welcome at yours, whether she passes her exams or not. Praise her other achievements - is she good at other things? Does she have any hobbies? Attach importance to these things so she knows that she always has those to fall back on.

A word of warning too - your negativity may be causing her father to push her more.

lovechoc · 01/12/2009 12:44

yes Rhubarb that's how I read the post aswell. It seems the father is being rather pushy about what uni the child is going to.

Let them make up their own mind, fgs! We all want the best for our kids but being pushy isn't the way to go about it. Nothing wrong with encouragement in the right direction but to force the issue, it's just wrong. The father should take a back seat and let his daughter make up her own mind what uni she wants to try for.

YANBU.

katiestar · 01/12/2009 12:45

3 As is good ,although in no way exceptional at my DSs state school about 40% of A levels are passed at grade A .
But not achieved in one sitting is less good

JustAnotherManicMummy · 01/12/2009 12:50

I'd keep out of it and be there to pick up the pieces... if necssary.

I wouldn't discuss the father's pushiness with his daughter at all.

Rhubarb is right that you should praise her other achievements. Being a successful, happy adult is about being well rounded and not focusing all your hopes and energies on one specific area (whether that be academia, finding "the one", looking beautiful).

She's at the age where she's finding who she is and will eventually cut the apron strings. Leave her be and she'll be ok.

Sassybeast · 01/12/2009 12:54

It all sounds very starnge, especially as Oxford only confirms places in January ?

JustAnotherManicMummy · 01/12/2009 12:56

Erm, excuse me by why are so many people on this thread keen to rubbish this girls achievements?

3 As is 3 As. Regardless of when they were sat. She obviously struggled if she didn't get as high the first time round, but doesn't that make her achievement even more significant for her? And after all, isn't that where we're supposed to bench-mark our children? Against their best?

What happened to celebrating people's achievements, whatever they may be?

Rhubarb · 01/12/2009 13:06

I don't think anyone is rubbishing her achievements at all. The OP is concerned that the father is piling the pressure on his dd to be the best.

If you read the posts everyone is acknowledging her achievements and saying that there is nothing wrong with aiming high, but there is everything wrong with pushing a young child and forcing your expectations onto that child.

Equally there's nothing wrong with praising her other achievements, to remind her that there is more to life than just exam results.

katiestar · 01/12/2009 13:07

No-one is rubbishing the girls achievements !
But you must see that 3 As are much more difficult to get if sat all at the same time.
Whilst we as parents might bench mark children against their best , it doesn't mean that Oxbridge annd top london law firms will !!

Oblomov · 01/12/2009 13:09

My nephew is in final year of law placement. Actually I think it is barrister, training. not sure. but very very difficuklt to get into. any law route is tough, doubt that would come as much of a surprsie to any of us.
I think the Op's god daughter , and her father , need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Are these people on planet fantasy ?
Op has done nothing wrong. as others have said just a bit of support and your own experience, might help them both to be a bit more realistic.

gorionine · 01/12/2009 13:10

I agree with you Jamm.

I also find silly to dismiss Oxford or Cambridge altogether without even trying. It is sad that she was heartbrocken though.

DD1 is 10 1/2, when trying to find a high school for her we came across two great state grammar school with an entrance exam. Both DH and I thought she had to try, we did not push her or tutor her, but we thought it might give her more opportunity.

She failed one exam but we did not blame her or make her feel the failure, just said that obviously this one was not meant. She passed the other one with success but we would have "deprived" her of the opportunity if we had not encouraged her to at least give it a go. Had I had friends telling me "these school are too selective you should not try" I would have been ennoyed but I still would have encouraged her to try.

OP I do agree with you that the pressure "you have to pass" can be too much but surely there can be a middle way between succeeding at all cost and giving up without trying at all?

stealthsquiggle · 01/12/2009 13:14

Where are the school in this? Did no-one advise her that with 3 As with one at resit Oxford entrance was going to be a challenge (depending, to be fair, on the school - if she has done that against the background of a below average school then that is a different kettle of fish).

Letting/encouraging her to shoot for the stars is a good thing. Viewing it as 'all or nothing' is not.

JustAnotherManicMummy · 01/12/2009 15:02

I did read the posts. All of them - including both of my own and my last post was a reaction to my interpretation of some of the comments on the thread. Although admittedly it was Katiestar's post at 12:45 that got me going and I'll conceed that "so many people" was an exaggeration.

I was just a bit at these sorts of comments: "achieved in one sitting is less good" "He thinks the 3 As confirms her greatness" "She got 3 As at A-level but had to re-take one of them"

That doesn't mean I don't think her dad sounds like he's being a bit unrealistic and pushy - but as my first post says she'll soon have established who she is. Then she'll realise life is not just about focusing on one area.

Apologies if I was not clear - wriggly baby is my excuse!

potatofactory · 01/12/2009 15:16

I am tutor for a girl who is being pushed very hard by her father. Over the two years of Sixth form (she is Year 13) she has looked increasingly haggard and haunted; is pushing ahead with FIVE A2 courses, and going for the best courses at the best unis, even though her teacher in one subject (the crucial subject for the course she wants) has suggested as gently as she can that it is not this girl's matural subject (she got a B at AS and is re-sitting a module to get the needed A) The course is the same one her father studied.

It's really horrid to be a witness too, and I worry where it will finish.

MIFLAW · 01/12/2009 16:10

I thought Oxford had dropped the entrance exam system and it was all on A levels/S levels these days?

LeQueen · 01/12/2009 16:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

AliGrylls · 01/12/2009 16:53

As rhubarb says it is the father that annoys me. He always wanted to go to Oxford / Cambridge to study Law and didn't get in. Then when he graduated he had to work to support his family.

I just think he lives vicariously and although he says he is not pushy anymore I am not entirely convinced of this. I don't think she has actually ever thought about what she wants to do but has just always said "I want to be a lawyer".

I am really fond of our god-daughter. I could easily tell you loads of positive things about her. For a start, even though she has a privileged background she is one of the least judgmental / down to earth people I know. She is also a bloody hard worker.

I have no idea about the Oxford / Cambridge thing and how they decide who gets a place.

OP posts:

thirtysomething · 01/12/2009 16:59

I don't think YABU.

As someone who works in mental health, I am only too aware of the devestating effects of parental expectations when they become crippling and a source of failure and disappointment. Whilst it's great that her Dad has such faith in her and wants her to succeed, it's his definition of success and not necessarily hers from the way you've told it...He should be supportive and encouraging but also allow her space to make her own choices.

I think you are right to be concerned about the long-term fall-out but I doubt there's much you can do unfortunately.

slug · 01/12/2009 17:05

If the father annoys you, you could always gently point out to him that one in ten students gained at least 3 A grades at A level this year. For some A levels (modern languages, some maths courses) the percentage of students gaining an A was anywhere from one third to a half. While not denigrating his daughter's achievement, it hardly puts her in the genius category either.

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