Can someone explain to me why it's so difficult to purchase an OTC medication?

[Juillet]

This morning I tried to collect some medicine I had ordered...it's fairly mild, over the counter stuff that I've used before.(phenergan/promethazine)

The fight I had to put up was amazing. This isn't counting the bit when she barely allowed me to order it in case I was intending to give it to my children

Perhaps I came across wrong when I was trying to chat about it - I mentioned it was prescribed for children thus was a milder medication than the other one I'd been prescribed. So maybe she took that wrong.

Anyway I finally went to get it and she started saying how I should just take the one I was prescribed, because it was for the same thing, we had a brief exchange where I tried to explain that one is stronger and I wanted the milder stuff as well for days when the problem wasn't so acute.

Then she turned that around, 'Oh you shouldn't be taking it every day' bla bla bla so had to explain that I'm NOT, it's only a few days a month, but sometimes it is bad and sometimes it is mild. So I wanted to save the prescribed meds for the worst times.

Then she said 'you shouldn't take them together' ffs, I wasn't intending to, so I said 'Oh really? Are they contraindicated?' and she had no idea what I meant so went to ask, and of course the pharmacist was like and I then noted the 'trainee' bit on this woman's badge...so I asked what the ingredient was, if it was the same, which I knew it wasn't as I have taken both before...couldn't see a reason they shouldn't be taken together, not that it mattered. No answer was forthcoming on that point but then I explained that it was for a few days a month when I have ovulation-related nausea. So the pharmacist asked if I also had ovulation pain, to which I replied no, and she told me I ought to buy some migraleve as it contains an anti nausea medication as well as paracetamol

I asked to see the packet (while the ever increasing queue pondered my ovulation status) and they reluctantly let me have a look. It had codeine in it which I don't like, and I didn't want a combo product, hadn't even mentioned my unrelated headache anyway, so declined and just bought what I had wanted all along.

I felt so patronised and frustrated. I know some people are obviously not bright and might take things all mixed up and so on, feed their children methadone and take roadkill home for supper, but I'm not one of them.

Pharmacists and their assistants do probably feel a burden of responsibility but where should they draw the line? If it's an over the counter med surely the patient should be considered the judge of appropriate use?

I'd appreciate any comments from pharmacists etc as well as anyone else of course

This was all in front of a queue of people as she was so obstructive and kept questioning and misinterpreting everything I said.

I was in the chemist yesterday buying a remedy for a UTI.Feeling a bit embarrassed by the nature of the condition I took the box from the shelf without drawing attention to it,then slipped it across the counter to the assistant who says very loudly"have you used this before?"fair enough question.Then she continues in the same loud voice"so you've had cystitis before"I mumbled "yes"then got out of there as quick as possible!

Oh I have had so many gripes with the main pharmacist at my local!

Firstly would not let me hire a tens machine in the weeks leading up to giving birth without MW approval. It was a service that chain of pharmacies provides, all she had to do was take my money, take a form off me and put it in the post, but she got VERY arsey about it, firstly because she didn't knwo what to do, and then saying it was too dangerous.

Later she wouldn't sell me eye drops for conjuntivitis. So I went to the GP who told me crossly "you could have bought these over the counter you know and saved my time."

And when there was difficulties in getting in an item I needed she wouldn't even make a phonecall to get some info for me

I'm going to go against the grain and say that Pharmacists have a very difficult job - this debate really annoys me. If someone takes medicine that isn't appropriate for them, it is the pharmacists responsibility. Especially if the customer is taking regular prescription medication which interacts with an over the counter medicine. I used to work in a pharmacy (as a qualified counter assistant) and I asked the NECESSARY questions to make sure that the medicines were appropriate, not because I was being a jobsworth or because I was scared of being sued, but because myself and my Pharmacist were personally responsible for that person buying that medicine. If I ever thought I might have made a mistake I went home and worried about it for days. And no offence, but if the counter assistant has never seen you before, how are they supposed to know that you are completely normal and sensible when it comes to taking medicines??
And I found it very hurtful when customers would shout at me about how they are not "suicidal maniacs" - one woman had me in tears. My own brother seemed from the outside the most balanced, sane person I knew, but he took an overdose and would have died if it wasn't for his friend's quick thinking, and the fact that there was relatively little in the medicine cabinet (32 paracetamol, 30 ibuprofen and 18 aspirin - so "normal" amounts). Nobody knew he was depressed until he tried to take his life. I thank God that there was very little in the medicine cabinet, even though before that night I would have never in a million years have thought my brother might have done that. I really think people ought to be more tactful when talking about people who take overdoses. I find the suggestion that people who do desperate things like that are maniacs very offensive and upsetting, so spare a thought for people who aren't as lucky and do lose people.

Like a every profession, a GOOD Pharmacist is a great resource.

They are the people who teach junior doctors about prescribing so their knowledge is very detailed - normally more so than a GP.

May I just apologise to any pharmacists or chemists reading this thread, and/or contributing - I feel very and sorry that it's unleashed an outpouring of angst against the profession as a whole.

I want to point those who have gripes with the service they have received to the brilliant and informative posts by LindenAvery down the thread...she/he answered my questions with equanimity and explained the difficulties faced by pharmacies in dispensing medicines, when they are under pressure to act on their discretion.

I have had much help from a brilliant pharmacist at a different shop who always talks to me as an equal and explains everything perfectly. It was just the woman this morning whom I found it hard to get along with and could not understand her motives for behaving in that way - but I can see now why some of the questions were appropriate.

Please read the thread before having a bash at them as it might make you understand too.

...and thanks to any who have posted.

I work as a counter assistant and can certainly agree with what many of you are saying.
But in our defence...
A number of the questions we have to ask by law for safety reasons and not because we actually want to know a customers life story or question their honesty.

I personally try and use all my tact and not be patronising but there are some, well, lets just say the position to nose question everything goes to their head.

As a general rule we in my place of work take people at their word if they say it is for them.

Report any jobsworths if they make you feel patronised or like your business is being broadcast as that is not ok.

And we know parents probably fib to get medised and other drugs but if we have asked the questions re age then the onus of responsibility falls back on them should anything untoward happen ( hopefully not).

Look if it makes you feel happier here are some of the bad sides of our job:

Shouty ill people very cross

Being coughed at

being abused for price of prescriptions

moping up sick and childrens bogies

listening to hours and hours of personal information and gross details of illness particularly peoples bowels

other parents from school avoiding you as you know about their dc's nits/ worm infestation

team edward - shop monkey- i love it

and one more point - what one pharmacist will allow we counter (shop monkeys) to sell without a blink of an eyelash another can absolutely refuse, I have often heard a pharmacist refuse to sell an item as it is not lisenced for that particular use.

Its all legal requirements.

Just dont bash the shop monkey (feel a name change a-coming)...

Oh God Starlight I can't get it right! I know, I know, not everyone was having a go, I was just trying to placate everyone...badly...

I don't have a problem with the pharmacists, it's the system I don't like.

Just doesn't seem like a coincidence that in countries where you have to pay to see a doctor, the pharmacists are given a lot more discretion and more drugs are OTC rather than prescription.

I think we are missing a trick here.

I would agree that its the system.

And space I am very sorry to hear about your brother. But obviously limits on the amount you can buy at one time didn't work or stop him from hoarding and taking them all at once. That's why its a silly rule.

I am, however, intrigued by 'we asked so we are no longer liable.' How does that work, then? So I go buy, say, Medised and say its for my 8 year old. I give it to my 5 month old, not actually having an 8 year old. He has a bad reaction and I sue the chemist, saying they never should have sold it to me for such a young baby. How does the chemist prove he asked me the child's age? How do I prove he didn't?

Shouty ill people very cross

Being coughed at

Oh yes frecklyspeckly - I got sneezed over the other day by a man asking me aobut Lemsips. It was gross

it's cool

The system is just one of the reasons I quit - another was the attitude of certain customers! MOST people were lovely - just over time the language/threats etc of some people outweighed all the job satisfaction.

I think generally over time this has got worse - I had more threats in the last 2 years of working than in the previous 10 because of refusing to sell certain items because I generally believed that the person needed to see a Doctor and their 'trivial complaint' was actually the sign of something more serious.

Like any profession you will have good/bad/indifferent pharmacists - and most pharmacists would probably agree with issues raised such as the limits on paracetamol - although a recent report has suggested that it has had an impact on reducing deaths by overdose.

Tee is right about proving liability but actually I was in the profession to consider the welfare of the people buying the medicine - I would feel that I had failed in that if someone came to harm even though the person had lied to obtain the medicine.

Pharmacists are there to inform those people with a genuine need and to help them.Some people misuse/abuse medicine etc and that has an impact on the regulations a pharmacist needs to follow - so all your gripes are probably best directed at the addicts who buy whatever to support their addiction or those that lie to obtain what they want and those that have little regard for what a good pharmacist actually does.But then as with most things the public gets what it deserves over time! It's just a pity for those of us who are decent.

poledra is right ,in this society where blame will get attributed whenever possible,pharmacists and pharmacy assistants have a legal duty. There is a set string of questions for all medicines that have a P category. If they are not asked and something goes wrong,they can be sued.
If they dont ask these questions,then legally ,they are not doing their job!!!!!!!!!!
When OP asked for phenergan and ,mentioned children in the same breath(although it wasnt for children) alarm bells will have rung. People do sedate their children with it.......

Also phenergan is addictive as it is the same thing that is in Nytol and you do have to use with caution.

maybe your GP could prescribe you some metoclopramide or domperidone if you tell them your symptoms

Try and see it from another perspective...if you had side effects that you werent made aware of ,or an interaction with another medication you might have been on.How angry would you feel if it had made you ill. We are just doing our job and phenergan is a product that is now kept in the dispensary as is codeine linctus,kaolin and morphine.For the right reasons

i have now also left the profession as i was working with a colleague who didnt care,didnt ask questions,didnt double check. and didnt stick to the rules and it really annoyed me.
Rules are there for a reason...to save lives!!!!!

Agree that a pharmacist can be a very valuable resource when they're just doing their job right.

And also that they're maddening when just being obstructive. Like when I was refused permission to buy a small bottle of castor oil (for oil cleansing method) because I might 'abuse it' - presumably to induce labour (although they wouldn't say that) and I WASN'T PREGNANT and had in fact only just lost all my baby weight... 'Twas annoying on two counts; time wasted tracking down another stockist, and that I might still look pg after all that dieting

that was a bit OTT about the castor oil ,but it is a known labour inducer,but i dont believe it is classed as a P medicine.

Alypaly - I can understand that but I think the reason I got so frustrated (and I want to point out that at no point did I cease to be polite, pleasant and reasonable! At least not out loud ) was that the assistant was saying 'don't take them together' when in fact they don't contraindicate afaik...she didn't know...she was just guessing and trying to make out she was in charge when in fact she knew less than I do. (I had better check that, actually) But she had to go and ask the pharmacist the answer to that and the pharmacist didn't seem to be aware of anything either) so it was almost like she was trying to assert come authority when she didn't know what she was on about.

I do have metoclopramide, that's what I got on prescription, but the phenergan is less potent I think? The pharmacist eventually agreed with me on my reasoning, that I wanted to meto. for the worst days and promethazine for the days when it is manageable with that.

my experience comes from having been prescribed both during two pregnancies when I was suffering from severe morning sickness - the phenergan was less effective than the metoclopramide but took the edge off when I wasn't too bad. The meto stopped me being sick and was generally very effective, by that I presumed it was a more powerful medicine, do correct me though...I thought taking phenergan would be less disruptive to my internal chemistry than the other stuff, if I wasn't actually feeling really, really sick. plus don't want to get accustomed to it somehow - then find it doesn't work so well when I really need it iyswim.

Could that happen?