Can someone explain to me why it's so difficult to purchase an OTC medication?

[Juillet]

This morning I tried to collect some medicine I had ordered...it's fairly mild, over the counter stuff that I've used before.(phenergan/promethazine)

The fight I had to put up was amazing. This isn't counting the bit when she barely allowed me to order it in case I was intending to give it to my children

Perhaps I came across wrong when I was trying to chat about it - I mentioned it was prescribed for children thus was a milder medication than the other one I'd been prescribed. So maybe she took that wrong.

Anyway I finally went to get it and she started saying how I should just take the one I was prescribed, because it was for the same thing, we had a brief exchange where I tried to explain that one is stronger and I wanted the milder stuff as well for days when the problem wasn't so acute.

Then she turned that around, 'Oh you shouldn't be taking it every day' bla bla bla so had to explain that I'm NOT, it's only a few days a month, but sometimes it is bad and sometimes it is mild. So I wanted to save the prescribed meds for the worst times.

Then she said 'you shouldn't take them together' ffs, I wasn't intending to, so I said 'Oh really? Are they contraindicated?' and she had no idea what I meant so went to ask, and of course the pharmacist was like and I then noted the 'trainee' bit on this woman's badge...so I asked what the ingredient was, if it was the same, which I knew it wasn't as I have taken both before...couldn't see a reason they shouldn't be taken together, not that it mattered. No answer was forthcoming on that point but then I explained that it was for a few days a month when I have ovulation-related nausea. So the pharmacist asked if I also had ovulation pain, to which I replied no, and she told me I ought to buy some migraleve as it contains an anti nausea medication as well as paracetamol

I asked to see the packet (while the ever increasing queue pondered my ovulation status) and they reluctantly let me have a look. It had codeine in it which I don't like, and I didn't want a combo product, hadn't even mentioned my unrelated headache anyway, so declined and just bought what I had wanted all along.

I felt so patronised and frustrated. I know some people are obviously not bright and might take things all mixed up and so on, feed their children methadone and take roadkill home for supper, but I'm not one of them.

Pharmacists and their assistants do probably feel a burden of responsibility but where should they draw the line? If it's an over the counter med surely the patient should be considered the judge of appropriate use?

I'd appreciate any comments from pharmacists etc as well as anyone else of course

This was all in front of a queue of people as she was so obstructive and kept questioning and misinterpreting everything I said.

LOL Pol, that's really funny. At times like this I would LOVE a doctorate in something extremely medical and clever. It would just avenge so superbly wouldn't it, to stand there and pull out your Consultant's ID to flash at them

I will always remember a pharmacist refusing to dispense my Meptid prescription (for a home birth) because I was pregnant. Words failed me!

Buy them on line here, from a reputable source phenergan tablets

I have had to argue discuss nicely for a PRESCRIBED medicine for my DS. Whenever his prescription was increased by his paediatrition at hospital they would give me an 'extenal' prescription to save queing the hour and half at the hospital pharmacy. It was always Boots (in different towns) that I had the third degree with. With one I actually said "look this has been prescribed by his paediatrition who I assume knows what he is doing" and the asnswer I got was "well he is wrong". I challenged him to phone and explain to the pead,that he was wrong to prescribe it.

One pharmacist told me to come back the following day he the item was in stock then did tell me he had phoned and checked with the hospital and was confirmed that all was ok. I still got a little hurrumph and it was begrugdingly given to me.. This incident wern't one offs they happened every time I went to collect

ok.........

A retail pharmacist is responsible for all sales of medicine taking place within a shop.

Certain medicines are clasiified as GSL (General sales list) which can be sold anywhere, others exist on POM (prescription only medicine) for which the general public need a NHS or private presciption to legal obtain.

The rest are P medicines - they are only allowed to be sold to the public in a pharmacy in the presence of a pharmacist - usually by a trained healthcare assistant (and occasionally trainees).

These 'P' medicines can only be sold if the Pharmacist is satisfied that it is the right medication for the intended user - that it is right for the condition and that it does not cause problems with other medicines taken/other existing conditions.

I think it would be great to make the public aware that just because something is available OTC (over the counter) does not mean anyone can simply buy it - otherwise it would be available to pick up off a shelf in a petrol station. The responsibility does lie with the pharmacist who has to consider whether the person:-

a) has self diagnosed correctly
b) is on any other medication
c) is not misusing the medicine (such as avoiding going to the Dr because they have no time/are scared/don't want to cause trouble)
d) is abusing the medicine - using it to get high/using it as an aid to anorexia/bulimia
e) is lying about their condition
f) has seen a new advert and thought this sounds good/been told by a friend this is what they need

etc etc

Now everyone is an individual and has a different background/understanding of medicine and conditions - if you just take what happened as part of them having your best interests at heart then you should see it as concern for your welfare. Equally it sounds like it should have been handled better as a busy shop is not ideal to discuss health matters - however the alternative would be as in the USA where you have to get a prescription for everything!

People do end up in hospital each year as a result of taking the wrong/inappropriate medicine or because they have avoided going to the doctor with a longstanding complaint when they can just treat the symptoms OTC.

No medicine is 100% safe and you might be brilliant at sorting out what you need and be sensible about taking it - unfortunately this can not be said of everyone and the only way this can be determined is by asking the appropriate questions.

Thankyou very much for the time you took to write that, Linden - it totally answers my questions and I feel educated!

I do think it could have been handled better this morning but I guess it's just a question of where to draw the line, and if the assistant was training she perhaps just tried a bit too hard or something.

I'll definitely go prepared next time, and be really clear about what I am after and why, so that I can discuss it as necessary without going into graphic detail - as long as everyone feels OK about the transaction I think that's fair enough.

Thanks again for explaining. I'll pass on the info as well.

Wait, there's Migraleve with codeine? Mine doesn't have it! Just very high dose of paracetamol and an anti-nausea drug.

And for Oldraver

A pharmacist has equal accountability for items dispensed on a prescription as the prescriber. Sometimes they are they last person to check that everything is ok and no one is above making errors. I remember when I was working as a pharmacist a few years back I had an unusual (but potentially appropriate) hospital prescription for a baby that I thought needed clarifying and it did take time to track down the doctor who had written it which wasn't ideal for the baby or its mother.

Turns out the doctor in his rush had copied the strength down incorrectly from the medical notes - easily done - resulting in a potentially fatal dose for the baby. As a result of checking no harm was done - the lady grumbled as she collected her prescription a day late - although the baby had the right medicine and she was none the wiser about the doctor (and therefore their relationship was uncompromised). Just me who got it in the neck!

I know certain large chains are a lot harder to buy things from than smaller independent chains.

Tee both pink and yellow migraleve have 8mg codeine in them, the pink have the anti nausea too. Solpadeine are another good one for migraine.

I used to suffer for years, and went through many prescription drugs, and nasal sprays, but now plain old soluble aspirin does the trick every time, and cheap too

Thanks Linden

I went to get Night Nurse for DP the other day (he had a bad cough/cold and couldn't sleep) and I looked it up online and made sure I said the correct things. None of it was a lie, but I wanted to get in and out and basically offered up all the keywords they were looking for. Left to my own devices there would have been a lot more waffle.

Also, on codeine - AFAIK you can't get codeine without paracetamol unless on prescription. This is pretty much so that people don't take high doses and get addicted - the paracetamol would make you ill before the codeine would make you high.

Linden

I DO understand that, but when a pharmacist tells you that your childs peadiatrician was wrong to prescribe a certain drug then I think thats stepping outside the remit of the pharmacist. I suppose this whole thing makes me cross as I got it almost everytime I went for his (correct dosage for his age) medication. There was never a problem with the prescription. I have also, within the last year, had a pharmacist query a liquid prescription for DS as it was 'quite expensive'. I really dont know what that had to do with anything

Oh have to say I have recently found a really nice pharmacist who was happy to source DS's brand of medicine even though it wasnt their usual supplier, so not all is lost

I had a general query the other day - I asked the pharmasist if there was anything similar to Benecol that's suitable for under fives, as DD 3.5 has high cholesterol.

I was subjected to an interogation as to what made me think that DD has this? Shouldn't I take her to the doctor etc. etc.

Of course she has a hospital confirmed diagnosis but he seemed to think I had just self-diagnosed.

How weird that I have never before noticed that Migraleve has codeine! It works though!

I had a prescription questioned in Tesco pharmacy once - they insisted on ringing to check that I was ok to be prescribed warfarin having just given birth (I can't remember how the subject of just given birth cropped up, DS might have been with me) and breastfeeding.

I explained that the only reason I was ON warfarin was BECAUSE I had just given birth and had a blood clotting condition - but in the end I didn't mind them phoning to check that it was acceptable to let me have the warfarin, because they learnt something themselves from it.

old raver

about 'expensive' - certainly not the pharmacist's business! Unless the Doctor prescribed a bizarre quantity which meant the pharmacist was then out of pocket - the NHS doesn't reimburse medicines dispensed for a good few months - all prescriptions are sent away at the end of the month to a government pricing bureau that checks every prescription and works out how much they need to pay back to the pharmacist....so much red tape.....

As to the other - lots of medicines are unlicensed and prescribed 'off label' for children - mainly because the pharmaceutical companies don't bother to research use in under 12s whereas hospitals for years have become familiar with using many medicines for children out of need.

Maybe the pharmacist in this case hadn't come across this item being used before - in such a case they would be right to check, its not that they don't believe you just that they are responsible for what is dispensed - no one wants to cause harm to another person for the sake of a phone call.

Maybe they were newly qualified - maybe they were just being overcautious due to a previous experience --- or maybe they were just being awkward!

The key thing is to demand privacy while they quiz you. I've been questioned before but refuse to speak at all until taken to a space out of earshot of all other shoppers. I always do this. They're entitled to ask, and I'm entitled to privacy.

Tee, have you tried Immigran (sumatriptan) for migraine which you can buy over the counter now? expensive but does the trick better than anything else for me.
Here's a good one: dd has a pressure sore and i have dressings on prescription. I went to pick up a prescription from our tiny little pharmacy; pharmacist was at lunch (it was after 2 pm) and the assistant stood there waving the bag at me saying as the pharmacist was not in the shop at the time i could not get the dressings! i promised to use them safely (i think it was a box of six or eight) but, rules is rules, i was not allowed them and had to make a special trip the next day. Grrr.

Well I got the third degree buying powdered ascorbic acid (vit C) in a pot. I had to say it was for making wholemeal bread rather than crack cocaine.

During my pregnancy I have been refused otex for my other sons ear infection in case I was going to use it and mottilium for my partner, in case i was planning to use it - from two different pharmacies. It drives me nuts. YANBU.

Ah - finally a thread on my pet hate - chemists.

They are probably the most over-qualified people in the world for the work they do which is essentially putting packets of pills in white paper bags.

As for "you cannot buy more than 32 Paracetamol at once" - maybe not - but I have still ammassed a stockpile of several hundred at home - not because I need them / feel suicidal just because the Govt doesn't think I should have so many

SO THERE!

I don't really get migraines any more, cloelia, but thanks for the suggestion. I just still have migraleve in the house from when I did!

Wetaugust, the first thing I do every time I go home to the US is buy a jar of 500 paracetamol and a jar of 500 ibuprofen. Sometimes it lasts me until my next visit home, although not this time as I haven't been home in nearly 3 years, but I'm going home again at Christmas!

And when my 500 jars do run out? I buy two 16 packs every time I go to a store that sells them.

The restrictions on quantity are just stupid.

In chemists shop a few months back a chap came in to get a flu remedy for his wife and paracetamol for himself as he too had the flu. He was refused - he could have one or the other but not both.

My son who was with me asked me why and I told him.
Son (Aspergers syndrome) then asked the chemist in a loud voice - did that man really look like a suicidal maniac to you?

Chemist looked suitably abashed.

Loved it!