to expect people to keep their teenagers under control in the park

[fledtoscotland]

the title says it all really.

I am totally sick of taking my DC aged 1 & 2 to the park to find it vandalised by teenagers.

At the weekend we walked to our nearest to find the baby swing has been broken by teenagers standing in it (they were doing it at the time so I know they were approx 14/15yrs old), glass everywhere, dropping their litter after them. When I walked up to them they ran off so I didn't even get a chance to give them a piece of my mind.

yesterday walked to the other park in the town (further but usually nicer) to find the baby swing again vandalised although this lot had used some imagination and set fire to it , the slide had been spray painted and there was glass round the see-saw.

Just to set the scene, I have two dogs. yes they have both got their Good Citizen certificates from the Kennel club, yes they can be excitable and yes they get tied up if there are any other people at the swing parks (although in my town the parks aren't fenced off so you can take dogs up to the swings.

I would be lynched if I didn't pick up after my dogs or repair any damage they caused yet parents seem to thing that any damage their precious teenagers cause is part of life.

am going to don hard hat now while I'm told that I am totally out of line - at least I feel better now I've got it off my chest

I think that the parents of these teenagers probably don't know where they are or know what they are up to. At least, I hope they don't! I also think teenagers, pack animals that they are, egg each other on which obviously makes things far worse.

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP that if either of her dogs did something as antisocial as these bloody kids, albeit big kids, all hell would break loose. It's just a shame that teenagers cannot be controlled (and trained!) in the same way the OP has with her dogs (and congrats OP on your fab attitude to your dogs, we need more owners like you as the rubbish one's tar the rest of us too!) You are in now way being unreasonable with getting pissed off, I would be too! Can only say, if you spot any of the little dears vandalising, report them!

I meant NO way being unreasonable, not 'now' way! Typing sneakily at work so rushing!

For most of them doing the vandalism though, jail is not exactly a terrifying thing!

For most of them doing the vandalism though, jail is not exactly a terrifying thing!

Parents don't usually accompany their teenagers to the park!
If teenagers are vandelising property it's a matter for the police and then the parents get involved but I doubt the teenage vandels are telling their parents what they are up to.
I think parents shouldn't let their teenagers go out in groups and drink alcohol, but I don't think parents can be held responsible for their kids if they are vandelising parks whilst out with friends.
I hate dogs in swing parks, you shouldn't need a fence to keep them out, ours has signs that say no dogs in play area.
Bring back Parkies to patrol the parks and keep teenagers and dog owners in line.

Never heard of a Parkie but it sounds like a good idea!

well I haven't had the slating I expected

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I am expected to keep my dogs under control which I do. However I expect parents to teach values and common decency to their children. I really don't understand the thrill of spraying your initials on a slide or setting fire to a swing. Maybe I am missing the fun things in life, but I have never graffitti'd anything, set fire to anything in a public place, or generally been a vandal. dont get me wrong, as a teenager we drank/smoked/annoyed our parents but I lived in fear that if my Dad found out, I was for it. I don't expect my DC to be perfect when they are older but I do expect them to be decemt people with respect

Ditto what everyone else said! Speak to your council! I know my local council is quite helpful in this department.

Also another inner London city poster and I agree I have more issues with bloody dogs in the parks rather than unruley teens!!

Keep ya dogs on a lead or take them to place that isnt a public park! jheeze

pingping - thanks for your helpful comment about keeping my dogs on a lead and taking them somewhere other than a public park. however I dont understand where I should take my children? Also, I WILL take my dogs to a park since they are looked after and I'm in control of them. after all I pay my council tax same as everyone else.

We had this the other week, my ds (3) went running up to the slide and began climbing the steps, I just stopped him in time from coming down, as someone had pissed on the slide.
There was a group of teenagers sitting nearby sniggering.
I ask them if they'd done it, they laughed and denied it, but it was obvious it was them.
I was so bloody cross. I just told them to grow up (I wanted to say more but i didn't want to start arguing with them in front of ds)and get a life and took my little boy home.

" I don't expect my DC to be perfect when they are older but I do expect them to be decemt people with respect"

Well so do I. And IME most of the teenagers I know are just that (most of the time). But that is nothing to do with keeping teenagers under control. That is about education and upbringing, not control.

Once they reach a certain age it isn't feasible to keep them tied to you at all times. And you have to trust them. I have never had any problems with DS#1 being out and about with his friends but I am not ruling out that it may happen. It's very different having big half-adults to having little children.

Message withdrawn

There isn't a "balance", because saying "teenagers are bad" or "teenagers are fine" are no more meaningful than saying "people are bad" or "people are fine". And, like it or not, they are just one subcategory of people - some are good, some are bad. Some are going through a bad patch at the moment, but will realise that and come out of it as better people. Some are going to stay a pain for the rest of their lives.

Where is this neighbourhood where you would get lynched if you didn't pick up after your dogs? Can I go and live there NOW???

(thankfully not much of a problem with the local teens around this way, but you can't step out of your door without treading in dog do and ds has been bitten and had his ball snatched by dogs in the local park)

cory - why do you need to turn it around to yet another thread about dog poo. We have dog wardens that will fine up to £1000 if you dont pick up after your dogs yet have contacted the council and they arent interested in the vandalism to the local park.

Well the kids round here are bloody horrid well 95% of them anyway. The council spent out loads of money on a brand new park that they reckon the teens wanted, with a big swing. they have already set fires there and rubbish and glass everywhere. vandalism everywhere one says " rules dis park mes wiv us and ul die". So charming. The swing has been pinched a few times which i find hilarious, cos then they dont bother going in there. But the council always find it and bring it back lol. They really do need to learn more consideration and respect seeing as though it is not their property, oh and i love my kids reading crap thats obviously written by complete idiots.

to the op yanbu in being annoyed/angry.
but I wish all the people who are anti teens would realise that one day their little darlings will be a teen.

One thing that bloody annoys me is people saying there's nothing for the young people to do. There's plenty if people were prepared to either look out for something to do or be prepared to commit. I can't speak for the whole of the country on how things are run but there is plenty voluntary and statutory provision out there. Not everything will be everyone's cup of tea but there is something for everyone.

Example in the Borough that I live we have Duke of Edingburgh Award going on. This has traditionally been percieved as a white middle class male activity. Here we have had young Asian females, young single parents, under privileged kids, and yes white middle class males go through the award at very little or no cost to them.

There are Youth Forums,youth voice groups Cadets, Youth Buses that go out to rural areas if there is no youth provision. If you haven't got this ask your councellor why not.

We have Adventure Learning Clubs where the young people can (with support from youth workers) bid for money to go on trips, skiing, snowboarding, theatre trips,residentials etc aswell as go mountain biking, climbing and snorkeling
There are loads of voluntary groups such as Scouts and Explorers, Guides and so on.
There are Generic Youth Clubs, Young mums groups, PAYP (Positive Activities for Young People)and Movin' Up projects and youth clubs for physical and learning disabilities.There are skills groups such as Water based skills (canoeing trips) and mountain skills as well as sailing groups. All these are free of charge

There are plenty more but you get the picture?

One massive problem is with some of the groups is getting the numbers. Young people are aware of these groups through school campaigns, detached youth workers going into areas, media publicity and Connexions.

If young people choose not to take up these activities it's hard work but not for one minute can people say there's nothing for them to do. Of course it may require some effort to get organized but some young people often opt to not bother.
Saying that there are many many fantastic commited teenagers who are doing fantastic work in the community and we have a brilliant Youth MP who at 17 is amazing.

We are not a rich Borough and our demographic is approx 67% white 33% Asian.

Rant over and out!!!!

Well you are very lucky upahill. I don't think you can generalise from your experience in one area.

I can categorically state that there is very little like that here. And none of it free. There is a fantastic YMCA but it charges and can only offer activities at certain times.

We have just lost our swimming pool and the nearest is accessible only by car or bus.

My son loves skateboarding but isn't allowed to do it anywhere. There is a very small skateboard park opened up recently - bascially one half-pipe . And another similar one opening up next month it another part of town. To get to a decent park he has to be driven.

That doesn't of course excuse bad hehaviour by anyone - and I am fairly sure that the ones that cause trouble aren't going to be tempted by kayaking or skating. But it isn't right to say that there is loads to do. There isn't.

I said I couldn't speak for the whole country but have people who say there's nothing for young people to do tried ringing their town Hall and ask to speak to the Youth Service and try to find out what's going on. If it's true, there really is absoutley nothing -no voluntary organisations, no YMCA's then instead of moaning about it why are people not being pro-active and demanding something to be done?

People in rural areas who had no provision round here demanded action and the council responded by introducing a mobile youth club for a couple of nights a week.
On an estate that had no provision a pissed off mum got together with neighbours and demanded support from her councellor to have access to the community centre and got a youth club going.

We had the same thing as the skate park. Why not see if detached youth workers can go one night or so a week to that area?

It's easy to say there's fuck all and it may be true but it doesn't have to stay that way.

Upahill - Its pretty much the same in my Borough, most of the things you already mentioned, plus just about every activity you can think of at Council run Leisure Centres. Parents on low income, can get a savers cards and only have to pay a £1.

We also have lots of cheap after school activities, football, rugby, trampolining, drama, basket ball, netball etc, etc.

My local youth club has had to close its 11+ section, as no teenagers were interested.

As my mum would say, years ago teenagers didnt have all this and had to keep themselves amused and didnt resort to trashing things out of boredom!

Generalisations on teen/ dog owner behaviour are so meaningless. Probably 5-10% of each are filthy nuisances. And all the rest get labelled.
I have two teens. DH teaches 1000+ more in a bog standard town comp. I meet dozens. A few are utter pains but the vast amount are funny, kind, thoughtful, dopey, disorganised, hardworking, eco warriors, musicians, gossipy, far too much energy or none at all, toddlers now half grown up.
If you want to see the ones who don't smash up playgrounds go to your local comp Christmas concert. It might give you hope.
I like dogs too.

"If you want to see the ones who don't smash up playgrounds go to your local comp Christmas concert. It might give you hope"

Hear hear!

Or anywhere where teenagers are busy doing something they love. Busy kids haven't got the interest in destroying things

blimy - I am so sick of teenager bashing - Nothing else to say, I am lost for words arrrrgggghhhhh !

I always wonder at the assertion that teenagers have 'nothing to do'. Not because I can reel off a list of local activities specially provided for them, but because it seems to imply that there are loads of activities available to adults (and younger children) from which teenagers are excluded. Other than going to the pub, the barriers to most activities are financial rather than age-related. This means that most adults don't go out and 'do something' everynight, nor do they expect to. Most people fill their non-working time doing stuff in the house or stuff for the continued running of the house (ooh, how exciting, another Saturday afternoon in sainsbury's!). I just don't understand where the idea that most people's lives are full of fun and excitement (as opposed to housework, trying to ignore sounds of xbox gunfire and flicking through channels hoping to come across anything vaguely diverting to fill the time before bed) came from.

I guess there was a period while I was an undergrad during which my life was more exciting. But even then it mostly meant lots of time sitting in pubs and going to clubs which was extremely expensive. I couldn't afford to do that now even if I had the opportunity.

Maybe the fact that teenagers (tend to) live with their parents is supposed to make a difference. Something about not having their own space or whatever. However, I have never had any more 'space' than I had when I was a teenager. Even while I was at uni, I had to put up with the activities of my flatmates/take them into consideration when planning mine. In fact, while I was a teenager, I could go to my bedroom and do what I wanted. Now I'm all grown up I get to share all the space in the house with other people.

Obviously being a teenager still sucks (I remember that well). But most of that is developmental and associated with the crapness of other teenagers. I think we forget that every part of the lifecourse has it's problems when we rush to make excuses for the minority of young people who cause problems like the OP describes. We also completely ignore the fact that most teenagers don't hang around causing trouble and claiming there's nothing to do. Most of them just cope with the uneventfulness of life and spent time in their room (watching tv, reading, playing videogames, doing homework, chatting to friends etc) or round at their friends houses doing much the same.