To think she's just down-right disgusting?...

[MuddledMummy]

I have a friend and she's very nice. We get on well... however she is really disgustingly dirty.

Not only with the cleanliness of her home which she shares with her 10mo DS, but in her own presonal hygiene too.

Whenever i've been to her house there has been empty take-away rubbish all over the kicthen/living room, dirty nappies all over the place, she always has tons of used sanitary products that really smell in her bathroom bin (as in all the time- like it's rarely emptied)...

As for her personal hygiene- she rarely changes her clothing, and as she's caked in make-up her tops alwasy have tons of it round the neckline... i've noticed she's been wearing the same top (mixture of 2 tops layered) since september- and as far as i'm aware it's not been washed... she's also starting to smell a bit, however she tries to cover it with deoderant and perfume.

Before anyone suggests it may be PND it started before she had her DS. Speaking to family members they feel the same as me but dont want to say anything as she has a very short temper and will instantly sulk like a 2yo!!

She's a young single mum but surely that doesn't give any reason to be like she is eiher? How do i approach the subject? Do i at all?

I'm getting more bothered recently as have seen her DS wearing the same jeans for the last few times i've seen him, and they still have the same food mark on them that i noticed the first time when i saw him i them.... which says to me that she's not washing his clothing either?...

maybe she declines help because she is ashamed

it's just very difficult to imagine that someone would willingly put up with that level of discomfort (and I have got into v similar states over the years with recurring MH problems) out of laziness alone

am not really sure what you want to hear on this thread? what were you hoping for by way of responses?

It seems strange she would avoid offers of help. Maybe she's so embarassed to accept help. Maybe she won't sort it until she's ready. Have you askedher directly about, for example, her kid wearing dirty clothes or her having the same top on for months?

mitchy- Her mum is very nice, both her other girls were brought up the same way and they are nice also, clean and tidy etc...

There are times when she does always seem on a downer (from messages i see on FB), but she never really talks about it in RL when i offer a shoulder, and will just shrug it off.

I've always been a good listener with other friends but i just down know how to deal with a situation like this. It's a new one to me.

When i met her i knew her from being the younger sister of someone i went to school with, so we had something that clicked with us. But it was only after knowing her for about a year that we got closer as we were pregnant a few weeks apart and attended the same AN group. So have been closer for the past 18mths.

Friend of a friend of mine lives like this. My friend has asked her if she's depressed but she says no. She's also offered to help clean but always been refused.

I don't know what you can do if you've offered help. On Kim and Aggie you always get a sense of underlying mental health problem.

Perhaps this is illness and perhaps she has no clue about basic hygeine and needs support either way, and being clean and tidy is the last of her problems on her mind.

one way or the other ... (if it's really that bad) I think someone needs to be seeing her and maybe it would help to give her a kick up the bum verbally.

Why don't you turn up at her house armed with cleaning products and rubbish bags and take over for a few hours ... she will either love you or hate you for it, but the message might stick and she will feel more motivated to get involved. I did this for a friend in the past ... the solutions are never so simple though .. it takes more than a tidy house to really help anyone ... being a friend who sticks around for the good and the bad in the long run is what you need to decide on.

One way or the other at the end of the day ... help if you are going to or stop seeing her and leave her to it ... pass her on to a professional if you don't want to help her.
I hope she isn't on here reading your posts though ... it's quite sad I think

It does sound as if she is having problems coping, and the attitude of her family probably isn't helping her - dismissing it as laziness or "that's just how she is".

I don't know how I would handle the situation myself, but it sounds as if someone needs to be very direct with her. Getting a health visitor or other authority figure, who is also able to help, onside, as someone suggested, would be a start.

i guess i was hoping that i wasn't the only one who thought the filth was within 'normal' levels... and that i wasn't looking down my nose at her as i dont want to do that. i want to see her on an even pegging... and now that i have had it confirmed that this is dirty and not right then i suppose i have more amunition to step in and be more forceful with her.

I expect i'll start with offering to clean, and not take no for an answer- My 2 older DC's will love it anyway- they are clean-freaks!! then i'll get onto the matter of washing clothing etc... Her DS doesn't always wear the same clothing, just recently i've noticed the same mark on the jeans so can tell they haven't been washed.

i have a friend like this and she really is/was just lazy (dont see much of her nowadays) her 18mo old at the time i saw a few times in pretty mucky looking clothes and her house was a tip, dirty nappies, food rubbish, dirty plates, piles of dirty clothes laying around, and even her dd's toys were filthy. Myself and another friend used to wash up, help out with a bit of cleaning ect whenever we went round but she didnt really apprechiate it. Then she went away for the weekend and left her spare key with us to feed her fish and we went in and spent the best part of 8 hours blitzing the place from top to bottom, doing all the laundry, bleaching, tidying away and cleaning her dd's toys up, she was very chuffed when she got back and did keep it tidyer afterwards so maybe she just needs a kick up the bum to get things started? Around the personal hygene washing herself and her ds though you really may just have to bite the bullet and say in the kindest possible way that its important to wash daily, she may not even realise how bad she smells

redsofas- thanks. I dont want to stop seeing her as she really is a nice person, a good friend and i love her DS. However i think i really need to bite the bullet and tell her so that it doesn't niggle away at me until i do start getting to the point where i dont want to see her for these reasons.

"However I think you mentioned that she wears plenty of make-up? So she obviously is concerned about her appearance. In which case it sounds like she's just a lazy-arse, who is perfectly happy to live in a filthy pig-hole."

From my personal experience, and this is my least favourite thing to admit to. I lived very much like that in the midst of my depression (without a child obviously), and yes, I wore makeup. Because it was something I could do.

The mess had built up to such enormity that I didn't know where to start sorting it out, let alone be able to bring up enough energy to fix it. And from there it's a vicious circle. The more mess the worse I felt, the worse I felt the more mess appeared.

It was only through one of my closest friends (who also has MH issues) turning up and tidying whether I liked it or not, that it became more habitable. Not that it stayed that way for too long, but over time I started to learn to control it. Not that I'm much better now, in fact right now I should be tackling the hell hole that is my kitchen.

Muddledmummy you sound like a wonderful friend, she is lucky to have you. Even if she can't tell you herself, please remember it. If she still wont say she has depression (which is understandable, there's a lot of guilt attached to it), then maybe over time you can convince her to get help. It wont be easy, I guarantee you that, and helping someone who is not willing or able to help themself will put a strain on you. Is there anyone else, maybe a mutual friend, who can help you to help her?

i didnt stop seeing her for theese reasons btw as she used to be a fantastic person but just lately she has turned very rude and self absorbed and shes just not the person i used to know i wouldnt stop seeing somebody just because they need some help x

I agree that it sounds like you are/have been a good friend to have stuck around. Maybe your OP could have been better worded, but from what you've said it does sound like she's just very lazy.

Maybe she doesn't realise she smells? Maybe she doesn't realise that people can tell she's wearing the same clothes for weeks on end?...

Either way i do think you should carry on being a good friend, but you'll have to have words with her so she see's that you just want to help her out. Maybe use the fact she's a single mum in you're favour? (if you have a OH).... ie 'i know i'd never cope without OH, so thought you'd like some help'...

muddled mummy,i have too friends like this....one is my age 40+ and has been this way since we were teenagers. i shared a flat with her once...not nice. but its how she is. my dc always comment on her house,state of it is bad,and her family boycott her and laugh about her too. she has lost her partner because of it. so you aren't alone. but don't call her disgusting!!

my other friend has mental health issues,and her flat/dc are clean depending on her mood....if she's happy,she will clean,if depressed,then untidy

its how people are....who are we to judge? and kids rarely die of untidiness

redsofas- sorry should have worded that better- i didn't think you'd stopped seeing your friend for them reasons...

cantmummy- that does actually sound like a good idea- as i do always say i admire her bringing up her DS on her own as i know i'd never cope without having DH.

Thats ok it did sound like that in my first post.

IloveTiffany, where would you draw the line then ? I would say that dirty nappies and used sanitary towels left to rot around the house did actually pose a health risk to a small toddler. There is a world of difference between being untidy and being unhygienically dirty - and being a firm believer in the hygiene hypothesis I am no great proponent of children being kept in a sterile bubble. If she's happy to keep dirty nappies on the floor then I doubt she's likely to clean her fridge or keep her cooking equipment clean - which can lead to very unpleasant infections in babies and toddlers

Extreme lack of hygiene is something that schools, nurses, HVs, police look for as an indicator that Mums and Dads are not coping - and "not coping" in the long term can lead to more serious problems.

I thought that FIbilou, don't HV usually visit the house on a regular basis? (It's been 8 yrs since DD was a baby and my mind is a bit sketchy) If they do, then they surely would have noticed, perhaps it's not something she'd bring up with the OP?

Her parents seem to be part of the problem, if they let her get away with not bathing as a teenager, and seem to be feeding her most days too. Did they ever make an effort to teach her to be clean and keep her own space in order? The immature stroppiness and sulking when challenged on issues she's clearly not doing well at indicate that she's been infantilised by her parents and hasn't got enough maturity to keep house (or take proper care of her DC perhaps).

Untidiness is one thing, but dirty nappies and used sanitary products lying around will lead to health problems and vermin infestations. She needs intervention.

How I hate that word 'disgusting' - to my mind it says more about the person using it than the person it is said about.

You do come across as judgemental and lacking in understanding. I think your time would be better spent offering practical help/solutions rather than posting about her.

I'm not sure I would like a 'friend' like you, tbh - so yes, I would say yabu - as you do not know/haven't bothered to find out what lies beneath her lifestyle.

Sooty, I don't think the OP is describing her friend as disgusting, just the state of her hygiene and house. What's wrong with being judgemental about what sounds like a pig stye? Fair enough, the OP doesn't sound like she's looked into why her friend is like that, but presumably that's why she came on here, and why she's a good friend. Most would just cut her off as a minger.

just a thought and may be way off beam but are you sure she doesn't have a drink or drug problem? Drug problem itself (eg: coke) could be easy to hide but the house going to pieces would be part of it.

Well, how shallow those people would be to cut someone off as a 'minger' - I hate that word too.

If she is such a good friend, I'm surprised she hasn't discovered one way or another why she is this way.

My mind immediately thinks of some kind of mental health problem/feelings of being overwhelmed - and she needs kindness and understanding, and practical friendly help. Offer to take a bag of washing for her etc....etc....