ivf

[Cobblers]

to want to tell my son that he is the result of ivf treatment? My dh doesn't see the point of telling him.
NB. DS is only 5 months old so it's clearly not a pressing matter.

Abetadad, I would slightly take issue with your comment that "no man wants to talk about the fact he has fertility issues" as I know men through the IF groups I belong to who regularly talk about their fertility issues both to small groups, conferences and to the media - partly cos they want to explode this myth that it's something we shouldn't talk about.

It would be a terrible shame to lie to him that the fertility issues are his mother's and not his father's. I'm not for one moment suggesting that you tell your DS against your dh's wishes, but I've never understood that it's somehow more shameful for a man to have fertility issues than it is for a woman.

Sorry, to hijack your thread cobblers, this just interests me as with us it was very definitely 'my' issue and I found it devastating that I couldn't conceive naturally (or so I thought). I don't understand how it's harder for men - but then I'm not a man .

I disagree ABetaDad that it will make no difference to your DS. As the mother of a child born through DUI, I have researched very thoroughly what children feel about being born through assisted means and their knowing about it is critical to them. Especially as everyone else presumably knows that you had IVF to conceive. And it will come out one day, possibly by accident and then you will be left with a DS who will be wondering what else you haven't told him. It's a part of who he is and he deserves to know. His rights overrides your DH's sensitivity IMO

Apols for hideous grammatical errors in that post!

Cobblers - I suspect this may be one of those things that DH really finds hard to express his true feelings about. Probably buried deep within imself. If pressed, I suspect he will become quite angry and embarrased about it rather than explain why he feels that DS should not be told.

Unless you feel it is very important that DS knows and can really get DH to open up I would drop it.

There are lots of threads on MN from women talking about ther DH with low sperm count and how hard he as taken it emotionally. I went through IVF (although my sperm count was fine) and saw men in tears at the clinic. It was an enormous relief to get positive results on my semen analysis and not sure how I would have taken news had my sperm count was low or poor quality. suspect.

Just as an aside, has DH ever really opened up about how exactly he feels on the issue of his low sperm count? He may even now be feeling really raw inside about it and perhaps even harboring feelings of being worthless to you and not quiet a man. If so, that really would be worth talking to him about and reassure him on.

Reading this with interest, and don't want to butt in again, but Cobblers said their infertility was unexplained, so his sperm count can't have been the "problem" so to speak. While talking about this may cause the anger/masculine identity issues that ABetaDad mentions, it's also possible that he'll see that neither were to "blame" for the IVF and that it's really not an issue big enough to deny being open with their son.

Our IVF was actually ICSI, as my DH has one testicle and low sperm count (due to previous testicular cancer). It's not something he discusses a lot, but he is willing to talk about it (for the same reasons Spongebrain mentions - when about 20% of infertility is caused by men why should everyone assume it's a "woman's problem"?).

Kiwi also best of luck to you - Cobblers is right about it being a "just get your head down" kind of thing.

Abetadad, not quite sure why you completely ignored mine and spicemonster's posts but anyway . . . I still find it hard to understand why you think that it's somehow easier for women to deal with their IF then men?

My dh often cried at the fertility clinic - not because he had anything wrong with his sperm but because he was devastated for both of us at our inability to conceive. We didn't apportion blame but that didn't stop me feeling less of a woman for not being able to give him the one thing we both desperately wanted.

spongebrain/spicemonster - I didnt see your post as we x posted. I started to write it then walked away from my computer for a while then came back and finished it and went to bed.

It is no harder for men than women to deal with this issue. I imagine there are women who do not want to talk about it.

kiwi was it you that asked for a reflexologist?

OP- I don't think it will hurt your child to know but imo unlike adoption I don't think it's something you need to sit your child down and discuss unless it arises in conversation.

You have years before it will come up anyway.

glad your treatment was successful

Just to add a bit more. DW does not want to talk to our children about why we had IVF or the illness that led up to it.

Also I want to take issue with what spicemonster said about "His rights overrides your DH's sensitivity IMO"

This attitude links to something me my DW and another couple we are friends with were discussing yesterday. The man in the couple complained that from his point of view men's wishes and needs are routinely ignored and dismissed in the entire process of coneception, ante natal classes and child birth and the entire thing becomes focussed on the woman and her needs, rights and wishes.

His wife and my DW started laughing when he said this because 'the woman has the baby'. I pointed out that men also often become depressed after child birth and they started laughing again. Me and the other man took it in good natured way but this assumption that men's thoughts feelings and rights should be over ridden or ignored if the woman does not agree is very wrong and very prevalent and goes right through the process. I saw it a lot when we went through IVF. It used to really annoy me how I was ignored completely at the clinic apart from being told to produce sperm at the appointed moment.

Sorry but cobblers DH does not want to talk about it as my DW does not. My DW may well do in a 'safe' support group but not to the children or indeed anyone else.

Are you both the "biological" parents?
If not, erhaps that´s the area he doesn´t want to get into?

No, no, no, abetadad, you misunderstand me. I am not talking about the gender of the individual parent here - that isn't the point. The point is that if the parents have told others that they had IVF to conceive, then they should tell their DC. Because the information will surely leak out at some point and that is when children have huge issues with it.

I couldn't care if it is the mother or the father who wants to keep their DC's origins a secret from them. It's wrong IMO.

There is a huge amount of research on this subject - anyone that has any kind of fertility treatment should be aware of that before they go ahead with it.

'Twas me indeed, Girlsyearsapart. Good memory.

I don't think there's an easy answer to this one Cobblers.

Our DD was ivf and I've always thought it would be quite natural to tell her, but only if it came up in conversation (?!) and when she's at an age to really understand - mid to late teens? I don't want to over-burden her or make her feel like she's in some way different to her friends, particularly as the way she was conceived has no impact on her life now. It'd be different if she had an inherited condition that may compromise her future fertility.

However, DH is also dead set against us telling her - for the same no-reason reasons as your DP. But he also didn't tell anyone we were having IVF - not his best mate, his family, whereas I told most people I knew. I agree, absolutely nothing to be ashamed off, but men obviously feel different about that. It's just a Mars/Venus thing .. and maybe something to do with the fact that they're still traumatised by the whole 'sample' thing. I think my DH is. The wimp!

Nanga - you "told most people I knew".

I have never breathed a word about it in RL for over 10 years. i only plucked up courage to first talk about anaonymoulsy on MN.

I also made sure DW came along with a few times to do the 'whole sample thing'. We were trying to make a baby after all and I figured she should be there.

Stirred up a bit of a hornets' nest. Hmmmm, I'm still none the wiser. I appreciate all the comments and although I may disagree with Abetadad with dropping the subject I will have a candid coversation with him about the real reasons he's averse to telling our son.

We are both the biological parents by the way.

Good plan on the candid conversation Cobblers - you have lots of time before it's an issue and communication is so important.

It's interesting to see what other people have done about telling/not telling others about treatment, as I guess it does relate to whether you then tell any subsequent DCs.

We were open about the ICSI with family/close friends/line manager and HR (for me, as needed time off for scans/egg collection etc) and appreciated the support and understanding (we had no negative reactions to our treatment, and I come from Ireland and have an uber-Catholic mum in her 70s who goes to mass everyday - she actually enjoyed learning about it, and is now a bit of a fertility boffin in spite of the Catholic church being anti-IVF). I'm a fairly open person and for me not telling a soul would have meant I was ashamed, when in fact I'm grateful to be the beneficiary of such amazing scientific advances (as we would nearly 100% have been childless without ICSI).

Sorry to hear you had such a negative experience ABetaDad. My DH found our clinic very understanding of his role/feelings, especially as he very much felt the impact was much more on me (all the drugs and poking and now carrying the baby versus some sperm samples) and at times was embarassed at the understanding shown by the (female) consultant and nurses.

After 3 ivf's and a miscarriage I finally got my gorgeous 2 year old ds after frozen embryo transfer. I kept a diary from the day we started our first treatment written "to our baby" so one day we will give it to him when he is old enough to understand. I keep it going now so its kinda like a story of his life with just a different start. My hope is he will see all we went through and realise just how much he was wanted and longed for.
It is a very personal thing that only you and dh can decide no matter what others think - its your child and your decision. I am just lucky dh and I agree. We are both the biological parents and have male infertility problems. All our family know though they dont know what our problem is they just know we needed ivf/icsi. I honestly dont see it is "his" or "her" fault - I see us as a couple who cant conceive not that dh cant get me pregnant.
Whatever you decide I wish you luck and enjoy your precious baby.
For the lady about to start ivf I wish you the very best of luck.

Just to lighten the mood a bit - the little room my DH had to produce his sample in on our egg collection day was right next to the nurses staff room (full of nurses at the time), the wall was as thin as paper and the bed he had to sit on squeaked like mad! We've had many conversations over whose experience was the most traumatic that day!

We'll be telling our DTs all about where they came from when they're old enough to understand. We'll probably skim over the more personal details though!

I agree with ABetaDad. If your DH is sensitive about this, then I would respect his feelings, particularly as we are talking about a young child. if your DH is not comfortable with discussing this, then I'd wait until he is comfortable with telling your DC AND until your DC is old enough to understand that this is not something that should be discussed outside the family.

You don't want your DC innocently telling all and sundry about it if your DH is not comfortable with it.

And FWIW, DH and I were also surprised at how the process of ante natal classes and child birth was so very focused on the woman and her needs, rights and wishes to the exclusion of the baby's father. As an example, when I was booking in for ante-natal classes, I mentioned that I wanted a particular date as DH was not available for the other available date. The person booking me in (who also took the class) was VERY surprised that it was important to us that we both be there.

I have gorgeous boys thanks to ivf/icsi and we just tell them "how most people do it" and that mummy and daddy needed a bit of help from the doctors. They're absolutely fine with that! If and when, we can tell them more. I think they have a right to know in case the same difficulties affect them.

I don't understand this at all. I appreciate what abetadad is saying, but as far as I can see, it just doesn't relate to Cobblers situation.

Cobblers would explain to her DS that most people conceive through sex, but that they were unable to, and so had their DS via IVF. If the DS ever asked what the problem was - which I think is unlikely - then the honest answer is "I don't know". It was unexplained infertility. I don't see how the single testicle would ever be mentioned.

I have a personal interest in this, as our infertility was very explainable as DH has no sperm at all. Even ICSI was out for us. So we used a donor. We haven't been open about our infertility at all with most family and friends, let alone the reason behind it, partly as we both know that male factor infertility is still a bit of a sniggery subject to alot of people. And some idiots still equate fertility and virility. But when our DCs are older and start asking questions, we will be honest and open with them. We know that this means that it might suddenly become a very public subject - our DCs will find out at quite a young age and might choose to stand up in front of their classroom and announce it! But we are willing to take that risk, because for us it is really important that we don't lie to our children about their origins. There is a lot of research that backs up what we plan to do - children who are lied to often find out in unexpected ways, and are understandably hurt and bitter. Children who find out naturally through the normal process of asking questions are generally very comfortable about it.

Perhaps it is different for you, as your DH is the genetic father, as well as the actual one, but it is something that I feel quite strongly about. Just my 2p.

Thank you for that Hiding. Feel quite privileged that you told us your very personal and private experience.

OK, so I didn't quite tell 'everyone i knew' about the ivf, abetadad but just most of my friends. i didn't tell work colleagues etc. for eg.

when you already have a toddler and people keep asking when you're going to have another, i just wasn't prepared to lie about it or fudge the issue

Why on earth does a child even need to know?

I can totally understand if a child is conceived through a sperm doner or is adopted but I think that to tell children about your fertility problems is way too much information for a child to take on, especially if you are both the child's biological parents.

IMO this need to tell the child has more to do with the parents than the child's need to know, because they really don't need to know, their mother was pregnant, gave birth to them, the how and why and whatnot is irelevant and is really not going to make any difference to a child.