To think adverts for and more info on formulas should be allowed?

[StrictlyBoogying]

I couldn't and didn't breastfeed either of my DCs for many reasons and when in hospital I was asked which formula I wanted DD1 to have. I had no idea which to choose and the staff weren't allowed to suggest or recommend one brand. I think it's ridiculous. People who want to make an informed decision on formula aren't being allowed to.

not entirely sure why MY need to dig out references means there isn't a mass of evidence...

It was me who spoke of censorship.

And tbh I have no objection to reinstating the advertising of cigarettes as again I feel its about brand conversion and not about inciting people to start smoking. Certainly smoking is a far less popular habit now but that may well be down to health initiatives and better health awareness, economy and so on.

Now I'm going to say something which is going to make me even more unpopular. I chose not to b/f my (horribly healthy) children, so I can't back Strictly's argument. I guess its fair to say too that I am not in the socio-economic groups which normally opt to formula feed so I'm a bit of an oddity (yeah, yeah, in many ways, I hear you shout!).

For the record I had my first DC at the age of 30 but had held my views on this before I had or considered having children so my take on this is not imho totally coloured purely by my own experiences as a mother but are equally just those of someone who has a fierce dislike of what I can only keep referring to as the Nanny State.

i've posted it. if you wanna ignore it feel free

ahh and a study on preterm infants used as a case study for normal term babies...even the authors don't make the kind of sweeping statements you have used their data to back up

And for the record I have some doubts about a lot of BF stats that are trotted out - I want to know the demographic profile of any research sample used to prove BF babies have a higher IQ?!

Let's face it BF'ing until 12 months is a very middle class activity, these are the same Mum's who will actively be working on their child's development, reading with them, spunking cash on sign and sign classes (flame me if you like but that's what I think, it's not a criticism, I intended to BF for 12 months and have filled in the application form for sing & sign).

Unless I see some evidence that a demographically balanced sample is the basis for these stats then I think they are bullshit.

yesterday - I haven't ignored it at all. I have read it all. If you choose to ignore the fact that the data you cite does not back up your own sweeping statement as it applies to the UK population then there's nothing more to be said.

hmm so you'v epicked apart 2 things that i posted.

what about all the rest?

why has this turned into yet another thread on why bf is superior to ff?
we all know that

this is about freedom of advertising and freedom of information

some people do not have a choice whether to bf or ff.

you've read every single link i'[ve posted??? are you sure?

Adverts are one thing and information is quite another.

As another poster has said, a table of basic facts (ingredients, preparation, price, etc) would be acceptable. Perhaps this could be drawn up by the Department of Health for objectivity.

And if you think formula advertising would have no impact on breastfeeding rates, think about why other industries plough so much money into advertising in general - yes, that's because it DOES work on a lot of people. And who would provide the balancing ad campaigns for breastfeeding? Oh yes, the DoH and the NHS with their limitless budgets....

Choosing how to feed your baby is not like buying a washing powder i.e if next weeks wash comes out a bit grubby you would just buy another brand. The normal rules of the market don't really apply, hence I don't think advertising is appropriate.

I've picked apart ALL the data you cited yesterday, none of its stands up to an even cursory inspection as supporting the sweeping statement I objected to as it applies to the UK (or equivalent) population.

Phew! Thanks Hoochie.

Yes, it was entirely my own decision and not influenced by a formula company, family, (then) DH or anyone else.

CornishKK - the Department of Health/NHS do publish information on formula feeding - for example this leaflet. The information is out there.

StrictlyBoogying - no, the fact that you don't change your car insurance every day is precisely the issue. At some point, you "chose" a brand, and - by and large - stuck with it.

Market/consumer research shows that consumers - on the whole - then remain pretty loyal to "their" brand, and construct narratives about why their choice was "just right" for them, how it perfectly encapsulates what they want from a product, etc.

Except its mostly all nonsense: we like to feel that we've "chosen" a product really well, that it suits us "as individuals", etc. Capitalism feeds the idea that we - as individuals - can choose and buy products which are somehow individually tailored for us. But they're not. And formula is the same, in many respects.

Some babies will get on with one formula, others won't. It's not down to some special "choice", but arbitrary factors which can't be predetermined by "choice". When a person lands on a formula that works for their DC, it's not because they've "chosen well", IYSWIM.

What if you chose Aptamil, based on loads of apparently sound information about it, but then it gave your DC constipation? Would you persevere because it was the "best choice"?

this one in particular i think is fairly clear cut no?

Hoochiemomma is correct the evidence is overwhelming, however, formula has it's place & mothers should be able to ask midwives & health visitors for advice on sterilising etc to ensure babies are not unduly put at risk.

Advertising is not the correct format for this information to be issued, it should be via health professionals.

Many women do have problems bf & the midwives, health visitors & GPs should receive better & ongoing training to help & support women. The vast majority of women who stop bf wish they could continue but feel they cannot go on.

I am a breast buddy & proud Phobee, I think you are rather ill informed.

and lots more references to studies on this page

Would it help to have an NHS / non-branded formula available in hospital? So you could leave making a choice until you got home. It would contain all the same (legally required)contents as the branded formulas.

As a BF I am well-aware of the benefits, but I feel very uncomfortable with the hurt talking about them can cause. I wouldn't judge a mum in any way for ff, because I don't know her story. Knowing the political and the health issues around bf/ff is one thing, seeing the individual in front of you is another.

Of course, this is why the whole advertising issue is important - it puts the individual into a position where they are manipulated (that is the point of all advertising) not informed. I think the idea of a non-branded formula could side-step the OP's point about being faced with that choice in hospital.

it's

Hooch (last post then I really must head to bed) - I am a scientist, and no I'm not googling I ran a very quick search of pubmed, the biggest and most well respected repository of scientific knowledge currently available to the scientific community.

It depresses me that instead of looking at the real benefits of BF versus FF and working to support women in BF, BF evangelists continue to try and scare women by citing old data from third world countries or at risk groups with quiestionable applicability to the general infant population as a basis for their anti-FF fervour. At best its unhelpful at worst delusional.

yesterday I have read all your links since I joined the thread that you posted in response to my challenge. I remain unconvinced of the validity of your sweeping statement.

At this point I bow out gracefully...heads and brick walls and all that...

A number of sources were used to examine the relationship between breastfeeding and the risk of hospitalization for lower respiratoryt ract disease in healthy full-term infants with access to adequate health facilities. Analysis of the data concluded that in developed countries, infants who were formula fed experienced more than three times the severity of respiratory tract illness and required hospitalization compared to infants who were exclusively breastfed for four months.