I think now we are both being unreasonable

[Clovissa]

I really must apologise - this is at the very least the third, and perhaps the fourth, time I have posted wailing about DP not wanting to get married. I have been flamed from every angle and called a manipulative, immature and an emotional blackmailer. I don't think I am but I'm prepared to hear it (again). I could have slipped this post under Chat or Relationships, but I do feel now that AIBU has somehow become its spiritual home.

So, DS is now an utterly adorable 8 weeks and we both love him enough to weep. We are happy, I am fit and strong and recovered. It was my birthday recently and I had built up my hopes that a ring would be forthcoming, particularly when DP hinted there would be diamonds. I have my diamond, it comes on a chain and hangs around my neck. It's very pretty but it's not a ring.

Next summer we will be adopting (or taking on, whatever) DP's nephew who is an orphan and getting too much for granny. Much of the parenting will fall to me and it will mean our money and everything will completely merge. I feel this is a huge commitment on my part and thought it was a good time to open the old wound and give it a good scratch.

So this morning I said to him that before we get DN I would like us to be married.

To recap, in the first year of our relationship we discussed marriage freely as something that would happen. We have been together nearly three years. In the last six months, apparently, I now discover, DP has decided he doesn't believe in marriage and won't do it. He does not want to stand up and do a thing that he finds ridiculous because he has already made every commitment to me and our baby by forming a family and telling us he loves us and that we will be together forever.

None of my reasons for wanting marriage ring true for him (I want us all to have the same name as DS has his surname not mine, I want us to say vows, there are legal and financial differences - but he just says I want to please my parents, conform etc.).

He has said he has no objection to me changing my name to his. Pushed to compromise, he has said I can have a ring in a year and marriage in three if I still want it - I don't get this at all.

I can't break up our family over this but I feel incredibly sad because I want a marriage with him.

Actually, I suppose it's unfair to expect anything new to come of this post but it will give me something to read as I snivel in my well of self pity.

Fwiw I feel for you. Haven't read your other posts but I'd feel quite utterly dejected.

So why is he so against it?

well, I haven't seen any of your threads

but to me, you come across as sensible, rational and actually NBU

He is being a twat.

Friends of my parents did not marry. She simply changed her surname to his and everyone thought they were married for years and years. Then he died and she was left with no pension because she wasn't his spouse. Obviously, this was partly their fault for not forseeing this but the point is that it would have been fine had they been married.

A marriage doesn't have to mean a wedding (IYSWIM). Just the 2 of you, 2 witnesses and 10 minutes or whatever in a registry office. Is that not a compromise he could agree to?

Well, would you really want to marry him, knowing he didn't want to?

I see your point though, he's gone back on his word, and waited until you'd had his baby to do it. Well out of order if you ask me.

But nothing we say here is really gonna convince you that you don't want to marry him, so erm I guess I don't really have any advice for you.

Hmmm...you've been together three years and he will marry you in another 3? You sure he hasn't been married before and the ex won't agree to a 2 year divorce with grounds and is insisting on a 5 year no grounds one? Fits in timescale-wise...

Thanks Curiousmama. He says he feels it's a ridiculous suburban, provincial convention that means nothing and brings nothing when two people are already committed to each other and their children. He doesn't want any part of it. It definitely doesn't have anything to do with money or assets.

He also says he would marry me if I could come up with a good enough reason but he won't do it for no reason. The only reason that works for him is that it might make it easier to adopt our next dc (ds is donor conceived) but he says that now we are taking on dn our plans for adoption are on hold because 3 dc is a lot.

YANBU, have you told him how sad you are feeling about this?

YANBU.What happens when you get to the three year deadline then? I doubt he meant that, sounds more like a delaying tactic to me.

And why shouldn't you want to be married? I'm not but that is a choice my partner and I both agree on. If one of us changed our minds we would have to rethink.

It seems that you are being asked to give an awful lot whilst receiving nothing in return.

If i were you I would say that if he doesn't want to get married he must fulfil the legal requirements to protect you all as a family.

So, life assurance for both of you naming the other as beneficiary, wills drawn up, the house in both names, a joint account for the bills but any money over and above that is divided into separate accounts etc etc.

It's all very well insisting on not marrying, but in reality the practical difficulties of being unmarried have to thought of and overcome.

For example, without a living will I am not my partners next of kin and if God forbid a decision needed to be made about switching off life support for example, this would fall to his mother, then siblings. None of whom he has any contact with other than a brother with mental health issues.

is your happiness not a good enough reason for him he is being selfish

I have offered to have no wedding at all and just pick up a certificate from the town hall. That's how little I care about the wedding.

ilove, no, not this one!

He has offered to make vows to me some other way but I have no idea what he would suggest and for me it wouldn't replace marriage.

I said I would be ok with getting engaged now, wtih a ring, and then not getting married for 3 years but no.

Feeling really shit.

well, i can see both points of view here. mainly because i constantly variate between the two myself.

he doesnt want to get married for whatever reason and for him to say he will marry you in 3 years is a bit ridiculous. he either wants to marry you or he doesnt. it sounds like he's hoping you'll go off the idea after a while but if you dont he'll marry you to keep you happy. which really isnt what marriage is about.

on the other hand is marriage really that important to you that you would leave if he didnt marry you? if so then you need to have a serious conversation with him about how the ground lies. are you going to give him an ultimatum, so to speak? you need to keep in mind that if you do, he might not be marrying you for the right reasons.

i would love to get married to my OH but there are reasons why a traditional marriage (family, church, celebration) couldnt happen and i dont want to get married without that so for us being together is more important than if we are married. i doubt often think there may be other ways but i know in my heart i wouldnt be happy not having my family there so dont think about other options too much.

The hardest thing is, I want to try and explain it without using DN as some kind of bargaining chip. But it is a pretty big ask to take on a 12 year old child isn't it? For our relationship, for example, it means I could never leave him, because although I could take DS, I couldn't leave DN, if you see what I mean. So my decision to take DN means we're staying together for the foreseeable. Which is fine, that's what we both want, but I want to do it as his wife.

Shine I suppose It's like one person being religious and the other not. We just think differently. Maybe I am more provincial and conformist etc. but I happen to think marriage is pretty nice and although I knew he wasn't wild about it I thought he understood that I would, well, be requiring it.

The three year thing is because he thinks I'll get over it.

If you are adopting his nephew and have a child, house etc then you MUST GET WILLS DONE!

Sorry, I'll stop shouting but please at least say you will sort this part out. You need to have legal protection if you are in a committed relationship and are not married.

clovissa, with respect, you seem to think being married will give you more commitment from him than you have. marriage is a symbol of commitment, not a way of getting someone to commit. why are you talking of leaving him? you dont come across as though you feel this relationship is permanent. is this perhaps the way your OH makes you feel?

I said to him this morning that we would have to get wills done and life insurance.

A friend of ours died recently, completely unexpectedly. His wife and baby were in a much stronger situation than if they hadn't been married. He knows this.

if it is for financial security then you an do this with wills. you dont need to be married.

Shine, I don't think I could leave him because it would ultimately be selfish to take him away from DS and vice versa and also to deny DN the home he needs as DP wouldn't really be able to take him on without us all being together.

He keeps coming in and hugging me and trying to lighten the atmosphere but it's a pretty dark day.

Well, try pointing out to him that being married protects you and gives you both more rights.

Say that now the children are here you are in way practically free spirits, but parents with duties and responsibilities.

Say you want the legal contract for your own financial security. Then in would be a pragmatic decision, rather than an emotional one.