I think now we are both being unreasonable

[Clovissa]

I really must apologise - this is at the very least the third, and perhaps the fourth, time I have posted wailing about DP not wanting to get married. I have been flamed from every angle and called a manipulative, immature and an emotional blackmailer. I don't think I am but I'm prepared to hear it (again). I could have slipped this post under Chat or Relationships, but I do feel now that AIBU has somehow become its spiritual home.

So, DS is now an utterly adorable 8 weeks and we both love him enough to weep. We are happy, I am fit and strong and recovered. It was my birthday recently and I had built up my hopes that a ring would be forthcoming, particularly when DP hinted there would be diamonds. I have my diamond, it comes on a chain and hangs around my neck. It's very pretty but it's not a ring.

Next summer we will be adopting (or taking on, whatever) DP's nephew who is an orphan and getting too much for granny. Much of the parenting will fall to me and it will mean our money and everything will completely merge. I feel this is a huge commitment on my part and thought it was a good time to open the old wound and give it a good scratch.

So this morning I said to him that before we get DN I would like us to be married.

To recap, in the first year of our relationship we discussed marriage freely as something that would happen. We have been together nearly three years. In the last six months, apparently, I now discover, DP has decided he doesn't believe in marriage and won't do it. He does not want to stand up and do a thing that he finds ridiculous because he has already made every commitment to me and our baby by forming a family and telling us he loves us and that we will be together forever.

None of my reasons for wanting marriage ring true for him (I want us all to have the same name as DS has his surname not mine, I want us to say vows, there are legal and financial differences - but he just says I want to please my parents, conform etc.).

He has said he has no objection to me changing my name to his. Pushed to compromise, he has said I can have a ring in a year and marriage in three if I still want it - I don't get this at all.

I can't break up our family over this but I feel incredibly sad because I want a marriage with him.

Actually, I suppose it's unfair to expect anything new to come of this post but it will give me something to read as I snivel in my well of self pity.

i think it sounds like excellent power play on his part. I agree that i would question what sort of a person would not want to safeguard his partner child and nephew.

if there is no marriage, you really need to insist on puting in place the correct legalities

Bottom line is that getting married would clearly make you happier than anything else in the world. His only reason for not getting married is that he thinks it is "suburban". He needs to grow up.

We don't yet have wills or life insurance or anything like that. However, he has no objection to setting these things up and whatever happens I will see to it that he does. He has also suggested me changing my name to his but this seems awfully contrived. I think I feel as strongly about the contrived nature of that arrangement than he does about the heinous conventionality of taking me for a spin through the town hall which incidentally is right at the end of our street.

We have a joint account.

The fact that DS is donor conceived does not have any relevance at all, DS is loved by us both as his parents, beyond question. As is also our love for each other.

Now I feel just horrible. I've practically thrown his gift of diamonds in his face. His parents had a horrible marriage and his family has been ripped apart by drugs and mental illness, hence poor DN's orphaned state. We have to take on DN because without us he might go the same way and that can't happen while we're alive. So I can't say, I won't go any further with this unless we're married because that is rejecting DN and we are committed to taking him, in fact I've even talked about it to DN so backing out now because DP won't marry me is not an option.

DP seems to think I'm being selfish by wanting it all, but surely it's him that's being selfish isn't it? I've been through all the palaver of IVF and donors and all sorts of weirdness that I never thought would apply to me to accommodate his needs, given him the most beautiful son in the world but these were our needs not mine surely?

When we met we discussed marriage fairly openly and he seemed to have not problem with it.

Apart from anything else, the "wait 3 years and maybe I'll marry you if you're a good girl" stuff is incredibly patronising and also makes a nonsense of his ethical objections to marriage (if he thinks it's wrong now, why would it be OK in 3 years?).

If anyone's still listening he's just come down and said he'll think about it because he does understand my concerns.

However, I seem to remember my last thread ended like this so I'm not holding my breath.

How I see it is - you have given him all he wanted - a child a wife and a mother for his orphaned relation a mother

Harsh as it may sound he hasn't had to put a ring on your inger to get these things - so why does he now need to?

He is playing by his rules, there is no compromise

He has messed you up on that one.

TBF for security it would be better for you to be married - for death etc, sorry but it is easier that way.

What you do about it I don't know.

marriage doesn't interset me - but then I havn't played someone along like your dp has

YANBU

Is there any level of compromise he is willing to accept ?

You said you would just swing by and get a quicky registry office do with 2 witnesses - what is his repsonse to this ?

I feel for you I have been in your shoes - my DP and I have been together 19 years and he has not wanted to get married, dispite 2 DC last year he offered the name change BUT in 2 weeks time we are eloping - just the 2 of us and 2 friends as witnesses. It was worth the wait and I have never doubted his commitment.

You have both got alot on your plate, and your DS is still so young, you obviously had a roller coaster journey to get to where you are today, and still other things on the horizon maybe can you both take a step back and make a firm financial plan now with a plan for the wedding next year ?

I would have thought that marriage (which is entirely seperate from a wedding, of course) is a far far easier and simpler way of securing all those things such as incapacity rights, property rights and name changing, than having to put all those bits and pieces in place by themselves. It is the practical thing to do IMO

I really don't get the whole 'moral objection' thing or the idea that it's 'ridiculous' and 'suburban'. Those are crap arguments. What is it about it that makes it ridiculous? What exactly is his moral objection to it?

Interesting that you say his parents had a terrible marriage. Has this soured his view of marriage in general?

I totally get how this whole issue makes you feel btw.

His parent's marriage probably has more than a little to do with it then.(My grandparents were miserably married to each other and it definitely put my mum off for a long time. She did it though, eventually.)

I think a lot of the posters on here are too quick to condemn your DP as immature, and commitment phobic.

OP it sounds to me that apart from this issue your relationship is a good strong, solid one - it must be or you wouldn't be contemplating taking on your DN.

Clovissa - he has a good reason to marry you - because it means a lot to you. If you mean so much to him then he should be able to compromise about something that is so insignificant to him.

Goodness poor bloke. He just doesnt want to get married.. probably with the same passion that you DO!! Take him to Vegas and get him drunk if you are so desperate to get married. Personally im with your DP on this one.. YABU

IMO marriage is a legally binding contract as well as a sign of love and committment. It offers security and protection for dependants, and confers pension rights on the surviving partner if the worst should happen.

TBH, there is no way I would have stayed with my DH or had children with him if he had loved and respected me enough to marry me. (We have been together 30 years, married for 25).

It has nothing to do with dresses, weddings etc. IMO.

I can absolutely uderstand why the OP feels sad and rejected.

I would be really worried if he refused to at least put some kind of legal contract in place, and they should both make a will today. For the sake of the children.

Had NOT loved and respected me enough to marry me.........must proof read.

Clovissa, feeling really sad for you. I understand the importance of marriage in a way quite apart from the legal and practical aspects, which are also important. I see marriage as a largely romantic and natural step to take by 2 people in love and all the implications if one party is not willing.

It seems to me that if you agree to take on DN, you would have lost your last bargaining chip with dp. Not that you want to use DN as a bargaining chip, I know you said. The 3 year promise is just a delaying tactic to make sure you are so emotionally invested in the arrangement you can no longer walk out.

I am not saying your dp is doing this intentionally. But subconsciously, we all know how this works.

Oh Devendra! I was just about to thank Aibu for putting the velvet glove on its iron fist for me!

But really, thanks very much to all of you. Our partnership is very strong, or as has been said, I wouldn't take on a child who will need an enormous amount of emotional support over the next few years.

We've just had a proper, calm discussion about it. I think he knew he shot himself in the foot with the whole three-year thing. Schoolboy error. I think he will do the marriage thing, and he's also said we can ttc again which has made me very happy.

I will post an update if, as and when.

Clovissa

clovissa
Do you know what I might do?
Book a date in three years time and start planning because that's a proposal of sorts.
He said in three years time so do it.

Clovissa, glad that things have taken a turn for the better.

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but when you say your dp will marry you, is he still imposing a 3 year lead in?

Blueshoes, I don't think so. He just came down to talk and said he was going to rethink his stance because he thinks what I have said actually makes sense. I kind of presume the three year thing was a red herring.

He's said we'll talk later about how to go about it. I'm going to nail it this time though, because I think we got here before when I was pregnant and it all came to nought.

I don't think there'll be any one-kneed proposals though - I'm offering a more 'let's sort this out' kind of approach.

Truly, if you could download a proposal and a marriage pdf and sign it, it would do. It wouldn't be everything I ever wanted - but it would do.

I just find it odd that he can be so vehemently against this committment, when he has already committed to you for life by having a child with you. The marriage committment is less binding than creating a child together after all - you can divorce, but you can't un-make a child. I just don't get it.

Fair enough if marriage is 'suburban' etc - well then don't settle down with the house, mortgage, and 2.4 kids if you don't want 'suburban'! Have the courage of your convictions and live a different sort of life. But if you DO the whole settling down thing then you have a responsibility to your partner and children to make permanent, legal provisions for their lives. Whether that is by marriage or by full legal protections doesn't really matter I suppose but why NOT marriage, when you have all the constituent parts of one?

Slow, couldn't agree more. He thinks he's bloody che guevara riding across the plains fighting for the revolution ffs.

I think he thinks that we'll become 'that' couple, that I'll give up work, let my brain go all soft (these are his thoughts not mine, please mind) and that I won't be his sparring partner any more as I'll have become some sort of stepford wife cutting out recipes for ways with mince.

Did I mention he is really quite Aspergers? I don't use the term lightly.

then he should do the fighting for the revolution etc not just collect the so called 'suburban' ties then try to somehow imply that committing to them is bad in some way.

And yes I do agree that you can be committed to something without legal backing however if you have the house, mortgage, partner, kids, then probably the biggest way of actually committing is to marry. It's very easy to say you're committed, after all, isn't it? Easy peasy.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all - quite the opposite & I don't get the suggestions you mentioned in previous threads, about how you're being manipulative.

Having a baby/buying a house isn't a commitment in the same way a marriage is, that's a rubbish excuse from (D)P. (he doesn't sound very D to me)

I would get to the real reason he doesn't want to commit. In the meantime, take a little 'holiday' from him....see how much you & him mean to each other.

best of luck...

Glad you got lots more support

If you think he has asperger's then that changes things a lot. Was going to post he was being a twat but won't now

I hope he does come through for you and you get married. You don't need anything lavish, when I marry dp it won't be, I'm too tight The best wedding I went to was organised for as little money as possible.

Anyway, I hope you do get married and everything goes well for your DN. It's a blessing he has you two after his very sad start in life.

You are not being unreasonable.

He is saying that being married does not matter to him.

You have tried it his way for 3 years and it still matters very much to you, therefore he needs to marry you because it really does matter to you.

It sounds like he could be coming around to the idea but can you explain it that it feels as though you are not good enough for him to marry because in a way that's what it is, he doesn't think your happiness is a good enough reason to do it.

DH didn't want to do the wedding but he did want to be married, I was the opposite very glad we did it though.