to think many parents who send their children to the lower quality independent schools are so pretentious it is cringeworthy?

[Barrelofloves]

Is it due to insecurity? Because I have found the seriously loaded/titled folk are not like that at all.

I need to lie down.

Too late, OP. too late.

"I was not really (in my mind)putting emphasis on the education aspect of poor quality indies because at the end of the day, if that's what people want to pay for....(crumbling roof, shoddy unqualified staff, poor OFSTED), then it really is up to them."

If we are dealing with grotesque generalisations, the parents in question presumably prefer the independents to the falling down state schools, with piss-poor academics, no music, and the only sports that are relevant are running away from knife-wielding hoodies with asbos ...

"It's the embarrassing shallow pretentiousness which comes out of these types of schools which is my big issue (or may be it is just here!)" What on earth are you talking about? What you are saying is meaningless - and whatever you might be meaning cannot possibly be proven and almost certainly only exists in your head.

The point is there are no 'falling down state schools, with piss-poor academics, no music, and the only sports that are relevant are running away from knife-wielding hoodies with asbos ... ' in my area.

I am too tired to process the last couple of posts but all I can say is Gregorian Chants at dawn...For or Against?

There are a few out there who know what I mean, and yes, if you haven't experienced it you won't have a clue about what I'm talking about.

Braying is a good word for it.

Oh, I understand exactly what you mean. But I think you are being a big a snob as they are.

And object to you coming back thirty two fucking pages later to resurrect you bollocksy OP.

Now I am going to bed.

So some helpful ripostes?

To the stockbroker (who has a spoilt whining 9 yo son who doesn't yet know how to say please or thank you) who wants to know which school you went to before he knows your name?

How about my neighbour, who says she only ever shops at Waitrose (wtf, is this actually a worthy conversational topic??)and then passing by her recycling basket when there were only Tesco's Basic empty tins in it! An open basket I might add as I can see eyes widening at the thought I'd be rifling through her wheelie!!

The thing is, why the false pretenses?

How did I know there was going to be so many posts?

I can't post everyday as I am too busy. I thought it had got pretty boring anyway and had gone off on a tangent.

I'm for a good education for all. What annoys me most is that it costs the state more to send a youth to a youth offender's institute or prison than it does to send him to Eton.

How come this thread doesn't appear under 'discussions of the day' or 'most active?'

Whoops, should have been 'were'

those attending YOI have different health/psychological state funded interventions/needs from those attending eton etc.given one is a criminal justice pathway the other is wholly selective education

is it so hard to figure,that if one found oneself bedding down at YOI your needs may differ from other chaps.your life circumstances etc may differ

imo fact some may look down upon the parental choice of "lower quality independent schools" so yer parents money just isnt as good as the ole boys,eh

Ah BOL, you have to thank the Xenia-factor for the number of posts. And the thread does appear in most active.

MadamDefardge "But on a completely different tangent, Malcolm Gladwell in the Outliers cites the most interesting research that says that one of the most important factors in success is when you are born in the year. Analysis of successful people reveal that they are in the most part born very early in the year, so they appear to be more developed and talented, are then targeted for extra attention, get it, do better etc etc. Those who are born later in the year do not get that attention because they have missed the golden window of showing promise, and so while only six months development divide them, the first group will go on to do much much better."

Yes I read kids of my mother's generation who passed the 11 plus were overly-represented by winter-born children. Being born in the summer was huge disadvantage. MY DS is a JUne baby too but I live abroad where the school year starts in April so he's okay. It's a bizzare lotery, isn't it. The system has to change; perhaps classes for kids with no more than 9 months difference between them in age rather than 12 months difference.

take responsibility for your own posts.xenia compelled no one.if you posted here you did so of your own volition,interest,sense of contribution

Xenia isn't real.

you are mere words on a screen you might be a fat obese man.probably are.
who can tell

maybe im not scottish or a mum

I would love it if she and her ilk would soften on the pure capitalist stance and give a leg up, with all that income, to fund the women I wrote about earlier (who were in their 40s and studying their GCSEs because they suffered domestic violence as children were forbidden to do hw/go to school/read at home etc.)

I think it is morally reprehensible not to want to help others, or to look down on them for not having 'shiny faces/uniforms'.

But then again, the selfish gene is alive and strong along and goes hand in hand with materialist pursuits.

But it is the humanist, compassionate soul that helps others along the way rather than trampling over the weaker or disadvantaged which will lead to a far better world.

It has nothing to do with communism btw, more about putting ethical considerations over everything else in the pursuit of wealth creation.

dear god some of you over personalise so much
address the issues,the sentiments
stop getting bogged down in she/said i said

actually were xenia is completely right is women who earn their own money are likely to prosper more. yes because their adult life and outcomes isnt limited to a sole wage earner.

Barrel, I think that you've just not met enough seriously loaded/titled folk. I moved from a good but fairly ordinary girls day independent (one of the GDST group) to a prestigious public school (one of the Eton group). The disparaging attitudes to the "Hoi Polloi" that some of the children had there were really an eye opener to me. I do think that there is something particularly abrasive about those that have succeeded from what one might call "humble origins who look down on those that haven't and despise them for not trying hard enough though. Reminds me of a girl at work who really had it in for refugees and emigrants, even though her own family had fled Europe in the 40's (they were Jewish). According to her the newer refugees just weren't as deserving as her family had been.

People without compassion are generally just not very nice.

Ok,I agree with what you say Nooka, and I can only speak from experience of course, but all the seriously loaded/titled folk (along with plenty of others who don't send their dc to this awful school) around here are great fun, kind and polite (incl their dc).

I'm not snobbish. I haven't picked posh schools for the children. I know exactly those parents you mean - they're a bit thick,. would never tell you their A level grades, if they had any at all and they think their children are wonderful when in fact they are also... a bit thick... and they want the pretentious aspects of some private schools but you will get parents like that even in state schools and not all those parents with chidren who would never in a mnoth of Sundays pass for either Haberdahers. Manchester grammar type schools in the private sector or the better state grammars in the few areas that have them, who end up in the less academic private schools are snobby.

Agree about refugees. I remember arguing with a local very successful Pakistani and a good few whites about immigration. How he would benefited from it could be against I really don't know.

There are too many issues on the thread and I've got to go out to an appointment, but I cannot let go unsaid that the right don't care. The point is that capitalism best protects and cares for the poor. Having everything in common without the incentive of personal gain doesn't help. it's why micro loans to women rather than gifts of food and money to men works best and why if all parents had to pay something for education directly they would get a better education for their children and demand higher standards - it will be interseting to see if the new paying culture in universities has that effect ie I havep aid £1,200 this year and only got X number of hours of lectures.

Must go. Keep up the good work.

Maybe it's just a really snobby school, and therefore that's who it attracts? Birds of a feather and all that. I reserve my real ire for those who send their kids to tiny private preps because the children "look sweet in the uniforms" and apparently very little more.

OP- I think that you will find judgmental and shallow people in all walks of life. I assume that the people you are referring to must be a little insecure or perhaps not too bright. I don't think titled folk nor those that attend state schools are necessarily any better so I think YABU to generalise.