to think many parents who send their children to the lower quality independent schools are so pretentious it is cringeworthy?

[Barrelofloves]

Is it due to insecurity? Because I have found the seriously loaded/titled folk are not like that at all.

Quattro, are you suggesting that I know nothing of Xenia's world? Simply because I disagree with her?

I assure you nothing could be further from the truth. And while I am very very aware that bigotry and prejudice and snobbery are alive and kicking in the monied middle classes of this country, it does not mean it should go unchallenged.

Lenin - I don't understand what you are puzzled by here. I think the issue is whether or not it is worth gaining an education and a degree of wealth which almost necessarily entails a disconnection from one's own original family?

Mme D - when you said "but I would almost rather it were rather than have to contemplate a world in which those attitudes have any kind of currency at all." I thought you weren't familiar with Xenia's environment, in which her views are on the more enlightened side. That's why I thought you had no idea where she was coming from.

a rhetorical flourish to underline my point, Quattro.

And its very much worth it for society. Our intellectual capital does not solely reside in the monied classes. In fact to wilfully refuse to cultivate that capital simply because it does not come from an extremely narrow route of privilege and money is short-sighted in the extreme.

I really don't think you understand Xenia's world. Don't you realise that there's no such thing as society?

i am the only person in my family to go uni.it was divisive and inclusive.it changed me.coming from a scheme it was so so different.but on other hand it was everything they had brought me up for "stick in at school hen".both my parents worked ft and really valued education.they imbued that in me

Oh, I certainly know all about Xenia's world. And I find it as repellent now as I did then.

But now its boring me. I've spent too many hours of my life with investment bankers and senior partners of law firms to want to spend any more time on them here.

some solicitors have a sense of humour gland that secretes

not all solicitors are the same...

yes, and some of them are even friends of mine....but as a tribe? Nah.

cycling christ the generalisations,they impede free thinking,stultify discussion

look beyond the labels and knee jerk reactions about job titles.it is as presumptuousness to assume a partner in solicitor is a snobby wanky tosspot - not necesarily

night night sm.

you offsky?see you hen

lizzylou "Sakura, through my job I have met loads of scouse Solicitors, varying degrees of accent admittedly. Commercial types as well as Legal Aid Lawyers."

I am talking about real scouse, which is a terrible. As I said before, there is no way those solicitors you know have the accent I am talking about!　They might have a diluted version of the scouse accent, granted, but the real scouse accent is like Rab C Nesbitt's glaswegian. You can only understand it after living there for a while. And I'm a linguist!

Litchick "I do, however, have mates who had a very comfortable childhood but chose a career in the arts or media and cannot quite get over that they don't live as well as their parents. Or we newbies.
But it's all about choices no?"

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I've never pursued money and have found a skill that gives me pleasure, but I'll probably never be able to enjoy as cultured a life as I might have if I'd have gone down a more practical route. This does bother me sometimes, especially, because as xenia says, money gives women choices, and it also gives their children choices too.

Well I'll never make as much money as my father. I'd like to be as successful (not doing so badly so far, but plenty of room for improvement) and I doubt any of my siblings will either. The lifestyle of my children will not be too affected though as my mother made very sure that we did not have the hugely privileged upbringing that she had (although we did have some excellent experiences as children/young people that were probably only possible because they were wealthy). According to my father (he works with some very wealthy and very dysfunctional families) we should probably be very grateful.

My views have been a little misrepresented by some on the thread. If you read back I've talked about my mother moving classes. I've said before now but probably not on this thread that it's great we have so much social mobility here compared to what used to be and compared to some countries with rather fixed castes etc. If you tell me one particular view that we can debate of mine that would be great. The internet lets people who never meet hear the views of others.

I said accent matters in some jobs including there was a time at the BBC where unless you had a regional accent you were held back - it works two ways. I doubt I'd get on very well at my local council tip unless I changed my accent which I easily could do.

Money gives women choices, indeed and I know of people who have earned enough to put on their own little opera festival each year. In other words you might do more for the arts if you pick a lucrative career as a woman and then fund bits of the arts with your money than if you slog it out as a violin teacher whilst trying to make it as a performer. We've all kept our musical hobbies. (Not really showing off because it's a sign of teenage years spent without boyfriends and no drink , but I had my 4 grade 8s and reasonably natural music talent, and lots of the family have the perfect pitch gene if there is one although that's a curse as much as a blessing but it's been more fun to keep it as a hobby and I know my children's father who is a brilliant organist etc did regret going into music and has seen so many very very talented young people over the years graduate and then hope to make it but ending up teaching instruments at schools for £X an hour which is very dispiriting... and let's not forget most actors end up waiting on tables... so there are some arts careers it may be best to keep as a hobby - as a woman found a hedge fund or private surgery clinic or whatever you would most enjoy and use your spare earnings to buy art if you're into art. You then have so much more power and I think fun).