to think many parents who send their children to the lower quality independent schools are so pretentious it is cringeworthy?

[Barrelofloves]

Is it due to insecurity? Because I have found the seriously loaded/titled folk are not like that at all.

Xenia: '...in this society women earning a lot tends to give them more choices...'

Never a truer word spoken.

hm, hardly the socio-economic insight of the century though, is it? Pretty self-evident really.

Sakura, through my job I have met loads of scouse Solicitors, varying degrees of accent admittedly. Commercial types as well as Legal Aid Lawyers.
Some of them have even made it to Senior/Managing Partner as well !
They are all based in the North west though, they may have lost the accent if they'd ventured Down South.......

I have friends with Welsh/Lancashire/Midlands/Plastic Scouse accents who have gone to London and done very well for themselves, they still have their regional accents. Toned down, but as much as any accent changes when you no longer live in the area.
I had a very neutral accent before moving to Lancashire, now I know I can sound like a Victoria Wood comedy sketch on ocasions

That is a shame that your Father felt he had to change, BabyBarrister, I do hope that doesn't happen so much now.

I think it has become much more acceptable to have a regional accent now. Probably because most people (ahem) realise that having a regional accent does not mean one is not as intelligent as those without.

Unfortunately there are a few people who still think it is a sign of unintelligence. Not entirely sure why though.

my accent has never been commented upon.i have worked in various locations

"Xenia - way to mortify your kids - singing in the school choir"

Thedolly, I think you've articulated one of the key arguments for private schools there. My DCs both play a couple of instruments and sing in the school choir. Proper music is an integral part of school life. It's not remotely naff because everyone does it. Not integrating music properly into the curriculum is one of the failings of the state system IMO

Selectivememory, no-one is without a regional accent. Even RP is just an eloquent home counties accent. I'm from Surrey and grew up thinking only Northerners had accents.
The irony is that DH, who is Scottish and sounds like the bloke from Coast, is far more eloquent than me.

On the interesting point about children having a different standard of living to us; My kids standard of living is a world away from mine. I grew up with nothing. We were very poor and I went through school on free school meals. Went to school with holes in my shoes etc. BUT, although we were poor, my parents were supportive, interested and articulate. We were always at the library and I was told from being very young that education was the way out.

My kids, by my own admission, are slightly spoilt. All three are under 6yrs so still very young. They're good kids but by 'spoilt' I mean they have no real awareness of how lucky they are. As they get older, I hope to give them a better sense of awareness and appreciation.

BuckR - this is a big thing wih me too.

We were very poor when I grew up and due to a mixture of luck and hard graft my children are growing up in stupidly advantaged circumstances.

Now this is their reality, and I don't want to nag, but I need them to know that this is not the reality for most people.

We have family who still live in disadvantaged circumstances and we foster, so I hope the DCs are gaining something approaching understanding...but still I admonish .

I suppose you try to ensure they don't have everything they want and that they work for things they want too. I did find it good for them to be away at university on a limited budget learning to buy cheap potatoes etc But we get used to what we have. To many abroad a UK council flat compared to their Indian shanty town is a palace. It's all relative.

And sometimes you can educate a child away from the family so it doesn't fit into home any more and not it's new culture at school - neither fish nor foul. The very clever grammar school children from very very poor homes often felt like that and the interseting question is whether educating them so they have nothing in common with their families is a price worth paying.

As for classical music there is no reason state schools could not have latin sung in assemblies and learn normal English hymsn but the state system is completely dummed down to the lowest common denominator. I watched that programme on the internet - the Choir which was partly filmed at my son's old school and they took chidlren from a local council estate up to teh school. Why can't their state school give them similar music? It isn't expensive to learn to sing say the Allegri Misereri or to say no child leaves this primary without knowing God save the Queen and Land of Hope and Glory and had exposure to plainsong etc. It feeds their souls. There uis nothing about a state school child which means they cannot learn proper music except that presumably the heads and teachers don't want to because they're not middle class or think the children are from state school homes so their voices can't manage it or something.

YAWN

how dismissive and rude of another contributor
is that the best you can muster?

At the last choral competition I went to (as a parent, not participating) I got really quite irritated by the two state schools competing. It was just ridiculous.

It was a story of sheer laziness. The children patently hadn't been taught properly. They'd not practised. The song choices were poor - simple stuff, not in parts.

There's absolutely no reason for this. A proper music teacher or choir master could have sorted them out straight away, because one or two of them had some ability. I really feel the state system is letting so many children down here.

disagree ,yes please but make a cogent argument

Purlease, how can one argue against someone who thinks that a state school pupil cannot sing properly because of their lack of breeding?
Really, what is the point?

point is,by squawking yawn you look thick

That's not what Xenia said and not what I said either. Nothing to do with lack of breeding. All to do with lack of effort. Slack and lazy. Rather like yawning instead of trying to make a coherent point.

cutting/pasting someone else is piss poor debating with a few wee comments chucked in

compose some thoughts,make a cogent point

OK.
My eldest is only 5, he is in Yr 1, but he sings in Latin regularly.
It's a Catholic school though, so not unexpected.

Um, Scottishmummy, loving you being the referee, but how much do you abide by those rules?
What cogent points have you made lately?

i sure as shit dont squawk yawn when irate