to think many parents who send their children to the lower quality independent schools are so pretentious it is cringeworthy?

[Barrelofloves]

Is it due to insecurity? Because I have found the seriously loaded/titled folk are not like that at all.

Then it is Msblueshoes to you.

Otherwise, it would seem too much like you are blowing hot and cold in your arguments.

but Msblueshoes! then you need to change your posting name, so everyone knows what you like!

Yes Jajas, I did read that. We probably don't count as proper fee-paying parents as we are just not committed enough...

As being addressed as Ms is inconsequential to me ... defarge, do you always use distraction tactics when your arguments start to fray at the seams?

defarge, you are a fee-paying parent. The colour of your money is the same as mine. Difference is you don't put your money where your mouth is.

were we arguing?

I thought I was stating my hopes and dreams for the educational system in this country, and before that bewailing the snobbery and stupidity shown by one poster who should know better by virtue of her much-puffed educational and professional achievements. not quite the same as an argument with you.

You don't have to agree with my vision or hopes, but as they are hypothetical you cannot accuse me of actually being wrong.

blueshoes, feeling feisty tonight?

Don't put my money where my mouth is?

Oh! You mean I should have left my child to fail in order to stay true to my principles?.

Let me tell you that that little boy has suffered very much for my principles in the past, and my duty is to him now. We have done our bit for the greater social good.

'Arguments' does not mean 'arguing', defarge. I would avoid using the word 'wrong', but I might use the softer version 'misguided'.

theories are just that until put into practice. Until that happens you might believe my ideas are misguided but you cannot know that. So my argument cannot possibly fray at the edges just because you don't agree.

defarge, you are preaching to the converted. Principles fall by the wayside if my child was struggling. I am confused why you make light of what is an awful situation for your child by using phrases like throwing him back with the 'state school piranhas'. Why can't you keep him where he can be sheltered and nurtured in a private school for the rest of his education?

because I don't have enough money for it. Two years is all I can afford. Its about giving him confidence to manage himself in secondary. Good enough for you?

I always rather like the (somewhat laughable) idea that my lovely children could single-handedly turn around the fortunes of the local comp by their presence . But Grimma is right we would have moved house rather than send them there.

Defarge, I think you are splitting hairs between theories/hypotheticals and opinions/views. The first is not less vulnerable to attack than the second. There is in fact nothing between them.

Sorry to hear that, defarge. I thought it was on grounds of principle that your child did not attend private school, not on grounds of affordability.

Well, my opinion is that this theory of educational equality might work.

I sold my home to fund his schooling, amongst other things. If my new business works maybe I will be able to keep him in the private sector, but then again, in London its hard to find a non-selective secondary. But here's hoping. Otherwise plan b is a brand new academy, so all is not lost.

Plan C is to marry money.

I've somewhat lost track of this.

Equal educational opportunity is a lovely ideal. Great in theory but...

Isn't that what the comps were meant to provide? I'm afraid they mainly broke the part of the state sector that did work pretty well, i.e. the grammars.

How on earth do you achieve excellent equal educational opportunity? If you can't, then best leave the bits that are excellent as they are and try to raise the rest.

some might argue that the comps failed because the grammar/assisted places/independent options meant that not enough influencers had anything invested in making comprehensive system truly equal.

But I make no apologies for the mistakes of the past.

There are many excellent state schools. I see no reason for all of them to achieve those standards.

I am not sure which part of London you are in, but in South London, there is Riverston non-selective.

Could be more, but my children are still too young for me to be investigating secondary schools. All the best for Masterdefarge.

no reason for them not to achieve...

Can someone kind please tell me what this thread is about? Because I have lost the plot.

FWIW I think my children will go to university.

Moreover, I think they would go to university whether they went to the local rough trade comp or the local grammar or the local independent that has a naice-but-dim clientele or the local selective independent.

I do think that Xenia has a point about social polish. I'm no accent snob, but there is something about clothes and hair and general glossiness and self-assurance of the fee-paying schools. When I did a tour of the local grammar I DID notice that the uniform looked horrible and that none of the children's shoes were polished ...

Feel free to flame me. G'wan. You know you want to ...

We are North London, but I'm sure he'll be fine. Thanks for your good wishes.

ah quattro, my flamethrower is running out of fuel. Here's hoping the grammar school kids start developing a shabby chic elan ...