Uniforms in Primary Schools

[GrumpyYoungFogey]

I know this has almost certainly been done before but the search feature on MN is not that great, or else (more likely) I am too dim to use it.

Being a child of the 1980s, I naturally grew up with no school uniform in the infants, and a rather loosely defined one in the juniors, which was only compulsory on the usual special days (photos, trips, that sort of thing).

So when did the practice of putting 4 year olds in grey pants and skirts and identical badged jumpers and shirts come in? How many infant schools are left that don't insist on this regimentation?

For me, the worst thing about it is how scruffy uniforms are, being nearly always based on polo shirts and sweatshirts, the effect of which is to make the kids look like they are working in a DIY superstore of for a firm of plumbers. Then there are those schools that go that bit extra and add trackie pants (for boys and girls) to the ensemble. Yuk!

I do my bit to undermine the concept by refusing to buy the official badged things and instead send the kids off in knitted jumpers and cardies in approximately the right colour. The net consequence being they stand out from their classmates by actually being smart!

But really, is there any campaign out there against uniforms, particularly for under sevens?

uniform is a pretty blunt instrument of discipline. and should have nothing to do with bullying.

i completely agree with you madame re fitting in and the implications of it.

and why can't children choose their own clothes? few enough choices in their lives.

I reckon they should have a strict uniform policy, with uniform given out free at the beginning of every year to every child. Polo shirts, sweatshirts and smart trousers for winter, t shirt and pinafore/shorts in summer for primary, smart trousers, shirt, tie and blazer for secondary. Uniform coats, bags and shoes as well. No makeup, hair to be tied back sensibly and in natural colours. Why give the bullies any more ammunition? Plus, as someone says, better for them to rebel by not doing the tie properly than anything else. They have plenty of free time to be wearing what they like, and the rest of their life to be worrying about fashion.

But then I also reckon school meals should be compulsory and free for everyone. Only exceptions with a doctor or religious leaders note. That would sort out the fussy eaters.

I think I may be a bit mean...

You've misread me, Pooexplosions.

Remember, I'm only speaking from personal experience. I had a grim experience of being lectured on the "joy of uniform". And those who were loudest were indeed those who were absolutely in bits that their own dc weren't at prep school.

Parents weren't poor, just had a huge sense of entitlement and were amazed that they had been forced to slum it in the state sector along with the likes of me.

Hence the urge to get a uniform into the school at all costs.

They dressed it up with a lot of words about how it would benefit the poorer children (and I have massive, massive doubts about that, but hey, one controversial post is enough!) but, at root, it was naked self-interest and a weird desire that their dc would at least "look" as though they were at a prep school.

It annoyed me.

I can't help it. This mania for regimentation is just depressing. I'm with fishie - they're kids, they should have a bit of choice and freedom.

I'm surprised at this idea that young children need or want to "express themsleves" through clothes of all things. How does a 6 yr old express their individuality through the clothes that others have bought for them, other than perhaps the statement "I like pink/ben10"?
I'd rather my children expressed themselves and their individuality through words and actions, especially in school, not with their choice of tshirt.

Children on the whole have a strong desire for conformity and to fit in, not to stand out. Thats an adult ideal that is projected.

Ooh I was at school in the 60s and the uniform was dictated right down to the socks (fawn, knee high in winter, white ankle in summer, and KNICKERS (two pairs, one white and one thick 'overpair' of navy blue with a little pocket)!

Yes it was smarter. You could only buy the uniform from one shop which charged the earth.

I have a cousin who went to a minor public school. You had to have the trousers specially made by the school tailor. The material had obviously been bought in bulk years before and was shredding as it was stitched. Cost a fortune. Every term a new pair was needed.

Yes it was smarter, too.

On the contrary pooexplosions, I think children get a lot of their strong desire to fit in from us and from the messages they get from TV etc.

There does need to be a certain amount of fitting in, obviously. But we should also try to help them to see that fitting in isn't the be-all and end-all. People who go far in this life aren't people who have a sheep-like devotion to fitting in - it's way overrated.

The other thing about primary school uniform that it's not a "smart" or formal environment. My DC's come home with ample evidence of eating, painting, playing on the fields and trim trail, and permanent felt tip pens on their clothing, not to mention a gallery of stickers - really the most appropriate "workwear" would be some kind of overalls were it not for the toilet issue. So it makes sense for the uniform to be along the lines of active workwear rather than a smart formal outfit. Like, combat dress not full dress uniform. (Perhaps the teachers might like combat dress too...)

In fact to go full circle back to the OP, working in a DIY store has a lot in common with a primary school

Madame, I don't agree but I see your point. I'd argue though that uniform removes any pressure of fitting in or not by not having the "right" clothes or shoes etc. Uniform isn't fitting in or not, its just uniform, the blandness makes for a level playing field.
Of course that leaves plenty of other things for children to be mean to each other about, but I think personally that bothering about clothes is so pointless, especially for children. I think that uniform just says, "its clothes, to keep you dry and warm, thats as far as they are important, school has much bigger things to be concerned about".

Schools are often the only place where the local kids(and thier parents) get a chance to meet up. It is a wee community of its own - and the children and their parents are proud of its community spirit.

Or maybe that is just ds' school.

I think a school is a community Riven, in the best sense - in my DSs school people of all ethnicities, abilities and social classes mix with each other.

CECE- is the uniform a nice royal blue by any chance? My ds was moaning about winter uniform today .
And I agree that school is a community- most children I come across are proud of their school and what they do.

am a bit bemused by op

"Being a child of the 1980s, I naturally grew up with no school uniform in the infants, and a rather loosely defined one in the juniors, which was only compulsory on the usual special days (photos, trips, that sort of thing)."

am also 80s child and went to numerous schools, all had uniform, infants and juniors, everyone wore it

i like uniforms purely for practicality

cheap and easy to buy, don't care if it gets covered in paint or torn

dd likes wearing the same as her mates

i can't afford to dress her in what some of her friends wear and i am aghast at what some of her other friends wear, think 5 going on 18

Lissyglitter-at my (work) school , that has just happened. Every child has been provided with two full sets of uniform , plus full PE kit including bag. The argument then being (on top of all the community, pride in ourselves type ones) that as each child has one there is no excuse to not adhere to the, now very strict, uniform expectations.

I know that the majority of the parents were, and are, very supportive of this, but how it will work out as the year goes on- with growth, lost items etc , when the parents will be expected to then supplement/replace uniform themselves will be interseting to see.

My own children have the polo shirt/sweatshirt option. I have no problem with it, and think it does give them a certain (positve) 'getting ready for school' mindset in the morning. I struggle however , because my boys are so mucky that i wash uniform every blardy night and have been known to microwave a sweater dry at 8:00am on the occasionally morning (slummy mummy emotion)

Buying my DD 'civvies' is such a trial that I'm profoundly grateful for school uniform!

Its quite a smart uniform - blazer, pleated skirt, shirt, tie in winter but its all machine washable and practical. At first blush the blazer seemed quite expensive (somewhere between £30-£40) but she had one from rec-yr3 and another from yr4-6 ... way cheaper than non-uniform tops would have been over those years.

deadei - no a rather horrible red!

DD has to wear a skirt that covers her knees!!

Well they all do.... whilst they are in sight of the staff but as soon as they are out of school they roll them up into little more than a pelmet

Put them in a uniform however formal / informal and they will customise it to be different. We were the same I remember, although I had to wear a beret and DD sadly doesn't.

we moved to germany at the beginning of this year so no school uniforms for dd!

she's as conscious of what she wears as most 8 year olds but since no-one here seems to care what anyone else wears then she has no trouble deciding what to wear in the morning! only question is what temperature is it going to be!

and her class are no more badly behaved than her class were in the UK so i'm not entirely sure whether uniform has anything to do with behaviour!

I am much happier with the "no uniform" situation - she still has the same sense of community with her class at school even without her red jumper and white polo shirt. I really believe uniforms are just there to give teachers something else to control the children with!

Yeah, cos thats what teachers get off on, control. They don't like to teach or anything.

Another plus point of school uniform is when they go for a museum visit or such trip out, they can be spotted easily!

pooexplosions.

My DD2 is in reception and recently they had a 'jeans for genes' day where the kids wore mufti.It was really really noticeable how much more relaxed the kids seemed to be.