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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To consider capital punishment reasonable in this instance?

56 replies

Sn0wflake · 30/10/2009 14:59

I consider myself a bit of a fluffy liberal and at 34 have always been against the death penalty but the actions of Neil Strachan and James Rennie take me to a place where I feel like killing them quite frankly. I still see problems with capital punishment...that innocent people die but I at least think for these offences life should mean life. Do you think that is unreasonable?

Just in case you don't know what I'm talking about:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8331388.stm

OP posts:
Northernlurker · 30/10/2009 15:13

I think it's quite hard to apply any sort of reasonable thinking to this situation tbh. Our basic instinct - as parents and as human beings - is to be repulsed and to want these men to suffer. That's why it's not a good idea for justice to be directly in our hands but rather to be administered through a system which does try to ensure public safety NOT revenge.

Blu · 30/10/2009 15:17

Feeling like killing people who have committed horrific crimes is completely understandable, and not unreasonable.

Which is why we have the justice system, because actually executing people is barabaric and allows murderers to set the moral agenda - i.e by reacting with execution we have followed their lead in allowing death.

But locked up for life: fine!

LaurieScaryCake · 30/10/2009 15:27

yabu

I'm so glad we have a justice system to stop us carrying this out

I actually have met Jim Rennie 3 times - he used to visit a guy I shared a house with. My friend is gutted that he never knew how dreadful his very close friend was (they actually shared a house for a year before he moved in with me)

LittleOneMum · 30/10/2009 15:34

YABU. These guys are monsters. But the death penalty essentially means that the state is getting down to their level. Wouldn't condone it in a million years, even if my child was involved, I'm afraid.

SecretNinjaChipmunk · 30/10/2009 15:51

i'm with littleonemum, to kill them takes you down to their level which is the very thing that made you hate them in the first place. life should mean life but not to take a life, just to lock it up, take away their rights and try to make them feel remorse for the things they have done.
that said, to want to kill them is a very natural reaction so i do understand where you are coming from.

MadameDuBain · 30/10/2009 15:55

The death penalty is never reasonable because it makes the state, and therefore us all, into killers. That is aside from the other unacceptable (IMO) risks of getting the wrong person etc. On top of that, it doesn't work. Crime rates are no better in places where they do have the death penalty - look at the US.

Agree with others, feeling like you wish they were dead is understandable, but that's why we have a justice system.

mathanxiety · 30/10/2009 15:56

The death penalty does nothing to discourage psychopaths of this kind, and actually life in prison means more time being punished. The US blithely executes criminals (and sometimes the innocent) and violent crime is still rampant.

electra · 30/10/2009 16:00

I don't think capital punishment is ever reasonable as others have said.

Original poster
Sn0wflake · 30/10/2009 16:10

I do understand what everybody is saying and I agree I suppose. I am quite surprised the difference I feel about the subject now I have a two month old. My reactions have become so much more visceral.

LittleOneMum - you are a better woman than I....if my child was involved and I faced them I do not think there would be rational thought going on...there would be rage.

To me the sentences seem too short.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 30/10/2009 16:23

YABU

Makes no difference what the crime is. CP is wrong.

ImSoNotTelling · 30/10/2009 16:32

Oooh snowflake yes stories like these take on a new dimension when you have your own children.

You are BU though, state sponsored murder is still murder. It is wrong.

theGreatPumpkin · 30/10/2009 17:51

Plus they are really going to suffer in prison, there is an 'honour among thieves' as they say and these two are going to be far worse off in prison than dead IMO.

moffat · 30/10/2009 18:00

Sn0wflake, TBH on some level I do agree with you. If people like this cannot be "cured" then they do so much harm and bring so much horror that society would be far better off without them and why should we even have to fund their existence in prison?

But, the reasonable side of me agrees with the other posters, if only life really did mean life. I remember reading somewhere that the death penalty was abolised on the presumption that life would mean life.

Morloth · 30/10/2009 18:04

The problem with the death penalty (well my BIGGEST problem with it) is that you can't take it back or compensate someone if it turns out you have it wrong.

Also it is barbaric for a Government to decide to kill it's citizens.

If someone is killed in the course of capture/commission of their crime(s) (or I guess even in prison) - well these things happen. But opening the door to the State having the right to decide the life or death of anyone regardless of their crimes is just not on, who decides where the line is for a crime bad enough to be killed for?

Time2Hibernate · 30/10/2009 18:19

I agree CP is wrong. But they could include something similar to picking gooseberries only with bare feet/toes. Uncomfortable and longwinded, every scratch hopefully a reminder of the pain they have inflicted on others.
Hopefully the criminal justice system is more transparent than before. But if it was wrong, at least the individual is still alive and has contributed in some small wasy to the prison food.
Why I picked GB I've no idea BTW

Jamieandhismagictorch · 30/10/2009 18:23

Hi, could you do the link again please ?

Morloth · 30/10/2009 18:23

I understand the rage Snowflake and if it were my babies they hurt then I would be trying to get them killed.

But what if one day your 2 month old is accused/convicted of a crime and is executed for it?

Original poster
Sn0wflake · 30/10/2009 20:28

I just don't know how one could react. To have your child do something so nightmarish. I don't know what it feels like to have an adult child but i'm not sure I could still interact with my own child if he had attempted to rape babies. I don't think anyone could know what they would do.

I just at a core level think these people don't deserve any compassion at all....they showed none and hurt innocents. I just don't understand it. I think I'm going to stop listening to the news and start living in a fluffy bubble.

OP posts:
Ponders · 30/10/2009 20:32

does this link work, Jamie?

Ponders · 30/10/2009 20:34

"Rennie was the chief executive of LGBT Youth Scotland, which offers advice to young gay and lesbian people"

Morloth · 30/10/2009 20:35

Oh no, I didn't say commit the crime, just be accused/convicted of it.

Original poster
Sn0wflake · 30/10/2009 20:37

Sorry Jamie...I don't know how to do the links.

OP posts:
Besom · 30/10/2009 20:45

indeed Ponders. This guy seems to have had everyone convinced he was a pillar of the community, including these poor parents.

BobbingForPeachys · 30/10/2009 20:50
  1. capital punishment is wrong IMO
  1. But no, ytou are right,life should mean life for cases like this
LynetteScavo · 30/10/2009 20:52

Taking anohter person's life is always wrong.