...to keep the extra money?

[sallydecker]

Am a regular but namechanged...

This is the classic moral dilemma, and I fully expect to be flamed, but here goes

I returned to work in September on 0.6 basis after a year's maternity leave; most of which was on SMP only, so finances are still up the shitter.

I received a pay rise in Sept- this was due to be credited to my October pay packet; However, I just checked and I think they have paid me a full time wage+pay rise, as they have paid me at least a grand too much (by my reckoning).

Let's be clear- I desperately need this money; have so many bills, overdraft etc. to pay off and things are incredibly tight- DP was made redundant 3 times this year, and has now taken a job with a much lower salary. But does any of this matter?

Should I ring payroll and tell them they made a mistake?

Or should I keep the money, pay everything off and buy some things we need?

Hit me- AIBU to keep the money?

The most common conviction on a CRB check for teachers is theft.

For social workers it is assault.

Just to clarify the Theft element - the Act covering this offence states

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it ; and " thief " and " steal " shall be construed accordingly

The Act also states that the appropriation of property may only be defined as such if you believed or had knowledge that the person to whom it belonged would not have given it to you.

Therefore by keeping the money technically you are guilty of theft

The intention of permanently depriving the other of it?

That was not the OP's intention.

CPS - no proceedings.

Right, the bottom line is that if you keep the money and work discovers it's mistake you will be asked to pay it back and you are legally obliged to do so.

To keep it and spend it is risky because when/if the mistake is discovered, if you cannot repay straight away it is likely that your employer will obtain a county court judgment against you to ensure that a court ordered repayment plan is in place. You will then have to repay in monthly installments. The advantage to your employer of doing this (over just taking money from your wages each month) is that if you leave your place of work or if you default on repayments they are then in a position to move straight to enforcement proceedings against you. The baliffs will be at your door etc.

You don't really want a county court judgment against your name anyway as this will make it harder/more expensive to obtain credit in future etc. Although it is unlikely that the court would order interest on the judgment sum in circs where you have been overpaid, there is always the chance that this could be awarded to your employer meaning that you would then have to repay more than the original sum. You would also have to repay court issue fees incurred by your employer in bringing the claim. Depending on which court the claim is issued in, you could have to repay your employers solicitor's fees too (generally speaking though a £1000ish claim would be brought in the small claims court where legal fees are not recoverable by either party).

In my view, it is always a mistake to keep money that is not yours. It is dishonest. Don't be tempted to do something you will be ashamed of, that is morally wrong and that could land you with further problems and issues. Talk to your employer. You never know, perhaps the money is correct and owed to you, holiday pay or something similar.

The other upside to calling as well- as people have said if you don't you will passed over for anything good, but as an upside you will be favoured by Personalle for your honesty: that'sworth a few quid in itself isn't it?

When this happened to me,it was a more basic error- they ahd miscalculated my hourly rate before pro rata'ing my wages as I went part time. I didn't notice for a few months as my hours were everywhere doing OT etc. Then on my first basic month I did and I was petrified- we were poor (days before TC's, joint salary on 2 FT wges of £21k, both jobs needing a car as at separate rurallocations, new mortgage just taken on, found out I was already PG again...... ) and absolutely shaking with fear as to what would happen when they were told I owed them what added up to about half a months salary over about six months. I couldn't have paid it and fed myself, that simple. Anyway they came up trumps and I benefitted but even if not, stealing isn't OK and the chances of you not being found out IF it isn't yours are minimal.

OTOH I think it probably is yours,owed for different reasons. So you can spend the next fewmonths panicking,or phone and in alllikelihood have a bit of cash spare for Christmas.

Shiney

Another vote for telling them.

I had a similar situation - posted overseas and both locations paid me my expenses.

I told them both twice (once on phone, once in writing). I did decide after that that it was my money when neither side showed any interest in sorting it out.

this happened to me. they noticed about 2 months later and the area manager called paid me a visit. I was basically told this was verging on theft and I was very lucky to keep my job! I had to pay the money back and would NEVER do it again. The embarrasment was worse than the financial hardship of paying money back that i'd already used.

sally I used to be a payroll manager and there were many times when someone across one of our contracts (ine 2 different companies) were overpaid. We would ask them how best they would like the money deducted from their salaries. Usually, dependant on the amount this would range from one deduction up to ten deductions (or the full amount on their leaving).

I would probably call payroll and explain the situation. On return from ML there is usually a shift in payments for one or two months. I have to say though, in my experience this is something that does happen and that companies have a procedure for (although unlikely to be a procedure for dismissing the employee!)

hf128219 -a clever prosecutor may say that the intention is derived from the OPs' failure to notify her employer as soon as she was aware that there had been an overpayment

And I have seen people prosecuted for theft when failing to notify the relevant authority of an 'over payment' when they have received money that quite clearly did not belong to them

I got overpaid maternity pay by the NHS 3.5 yrs ago, I didn't pay it bacck, or tell them. I felt I deserved it since it was work that pushed me over edge the mentally and I stopped working 6 mnths later.

I'm due to start nice private job in 2 wks time

I have a CCJ out on a tenant for over 1.5yrs it's made no difference to him....

I'm glad you're so pleased about it Niknak. So that's two on this thread who'll admit to stealing from the taxpayer ie, everyone else on this thread.

Anyone else?

I'm very pleased about escaping the NHS, and do feel they've had their pound of flesh

Let's hope for your sake that your nice new employers don't find out about your dishonesty.

I would ask them about it because it may well be legitimitely yours.

niknak i was overpayed on my last nhs salary- didn't notice as pay was so bad! 9 months later they noticed- i'm paying back on drip over 4 years.

i also escaped- best thing i ever did!

Did you ask? How did it go?

no? Not telling how it went after all the discussion?

wow!

interstingly i work for the NHS and im a special constable as a volunteer. id have to fess up, if its not yours, and you know youve been overpaid, its theft.

so....where did OP go then. shall we take bets?

sally decker
greedy fecker??

Please fess up! In the long run it has got to be the best thing..

And I too am a bit appalled at those who think it is OK to steal from the NHS because they are hard working. Many many hardworking NHS employees do not do this and that has got to be the right approach. I work for the NHS and don't feel that, however hard I work and however bad things can get, I should not do the morally right thing. Mind you my father was a dr in the NHS for 40+ years, NEVER did private work, would give back any fees etc that other drs kept to the NHS, would never make a personal phone call, take a lunch break and so and so on! If you cut him through the middle it would say NHS! So maybe I am a bit biased,

Oh but Sallydecker please do the right thing!