...to keep the extra money?

[sallydecker]

Am a regular but namechanged...

This is the classic moral dilemma, and I fully expect to be flamed, but here goes

I returned to work in September on 0.6 basis after a year's maternity leave; most of which was on SMP only, so finances are still up the shitter.

I received a pay rise in Sept- this was due to be credited to my October pay packet; However, I just checked and I think they have paid me a full time wage+pay rise, as they have paid me at least a grand too much (by my reckoning).

Let's be clear- I desperately need this money; have so many bills, overdraft etc. to pay off and things are incredibly tight- DP was made redundant 3 times this year, and has now taken a job with a much lower salary. But does any of this matter?

Should I ring payroll and tell them they made a mistake?

Or should I keep the money, pay everything off and buy some things we need?

Hit me- AIBU to keep the money?

[Longtalljosie]

If you're on 40% tax (or were before maternity leave) did you get that tax back while on maternity?

You'll have paid it as though you were going to carry on earning at the same level all year, and when your salary declined on maternity, that would have been adjusted and eventually refunded.

[ImSoNotTelling]

Yes totally agree with moosh wait for the payslip and take it from there. Hopefully it will be your money anyway

[Devendra]

Sally.. I would and have kept overpayment. I work for the NHS and have been overpaid a few times in the past 11 years that I have worked for them. The most was 2k at the end of the finacial year for some reason!!!???
keep it and move on.

[GibbonWithAnAppleBobbingBibOn]

Hear, hear shiney

[Devendra]

Indeed.. very few other perks to the job so I figure a few overpayments in 11 years is not worth getting hysterical about... seriously there are more important things to get your knickers in a twist about ladies!

[lazyemma]

I'm sure anyone on an NHS waiting list will find your post delightful, Devendra.

[Devendra]

Really?? So they would be pissed off that ive kept around two thousand and a few hundred quid in 11 years of very hard and dedicated work... I figured it made up for the late finishes, staff cuts, poor management and doing the job of two people at times... So shoot me!

[Northernlurker]

Devendra - that is apalling! If I knew who you were I would with great pleasure report you to the NHS counter-fraud team.

I work for the NHS too and yes it's bloody hard but that does not give you the right to keep money you haven't earnt!

OP - as a teacher I would hope you were teaching the children in your charge to be honest citizens and to count correctly. What does it say about you that you don't apply that to you personal life?

[GibbonWithAnAppleBobbingBibOn]

Can't imagine anyone that steals from the NHS doing 'hard and dedicated' but that is only my opinion.

[lazyemma]

My mum has worked for the NHS for 35 years as a nurse and now a nurse practitioner, and I can honestly say I don't know a harder worker. She would never keep money she knew wasn't due her, so don't justify your decision because you feel you worked hard. The NHS is full of hard workers.

[GibbonWithAnAppleBobbingBibOn]

Many of my family/friends work for the NHS and none of them would ever dream of keeping that money

[GibbonWithAnAppleBobbingBibOn]

Why thank you shiney

[Georgimama]

A conviction for fraud would end my career. It's theft (if it isn't meant to be yours).

[flowerybeanbag]

Sally a couple of points before you keep it.

1. It is theft. I thought it probably was, so I checked with DH who is a solicitor. If you know it's not yours, and deliberately keep it and don't let them know, don't make any attempt to pay it back, it's theft. DH showed me some case law about this exact situation. It was a policewoman who was overpaid. Her employer did pursue a criminal case for theft, at which the judge directed the jury to acquit, but at the Court of Appeal, the judge decided it was theft. Of course she lost her job as well as whatever criminal punishment was applied.

1. How on earth does the fact that your employer is the council make anything better? Is stealing from the taxpayer better than stealing from a big corporate?

1. How can you be so sure you wouldn't be sacked? Even if there wasn't enough for a criminal case for theft, or even if your employer decided not to pursue that route, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be reasonable to dismiss you, as all that's required for legal dismissal is a reasonable balance of probability. The burden of proof is not the same. If you do have some specific reason to believe you definitely wouldn't be sacked, I find that worrying about the teaching profession tbh.

1. You think it's a salary thing rather than a one-off. That should be easy to tell from your payslip anyway, but if they have got your salary wrong, you will continue to get paid the same unless and until they find out. Are you really going to keep an extra £12,000 a year net and claim you thought that was a salary rise? (If that's the case perhaps we should be concerned about teachers' salaries as well as bankers!) If you keep it and spend it you will be getting yourself in an incredible amount of debt. If you keep it to one side against having to pay it back, what's the point? You won't have benefited anyway.

1. There is a theoretical, albeit unlikely, possibility that MNHQ could be forced to reveal your identity if you confirm you have done it, the police see this thread and want to pursue a criminal case.

I am of course being deliberately as dramatic as possible in this post, before people accuse me of overreacting or being hysterical. But points worth considering I think before you go ahead.

[MadameCastafiore]

Makes you a totally dishonest person and someone I wouldn't want working for me - that is what I would think as your employer - money troubles or not do you want your everymove to be under question because you have proved that you are dishonest?

[Stillsquaffingthesteamingblood]

If any of my staff did this then when I found out (payroll departments do have audits), and if I knew the person was aware of the overpayment, then depending on the amount, I would either dismiss for gross misconduct or mark down in terms of annual performance and object to that person's career progression at every point. Trust is one of the fundamentals of any employer-employee relationship and keeping this money knowingly would haunt you for the rest of your career - as an employer I would certainly withdraw a job offer from anyone whose reference uncovered something like this.

[sallydecker]

Hmmm...

I think you lovely MNers are right, and I need to see my payslip. There is a chance it's tax back money- I had not thought of this (I was on 40% tax before mat leave). I hope it is. Please let it be tax.

Please.

Northernlurker- The kids I teach offered to nick me a moped the other day when my train was delayed. As far as making them honest citizens goes, the words 'stable', 'door', 'horse' and 'bolted' spring to mind.

[toddlerama]

When you have to ask if it's ok, you know it's not. If you really had a clear conscience about this, you wouldn't be asking, you'd be paying it back.

Your conscience is there for a reason - society can't function with everyone snatching what they can get from each other. Their mistake, but your duty to point it out and have it corrected. You already know what you need to do.

If you get a pleasant surprise, you'll be able to enjoy the money guilt free and feel good about it.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Devendra, words fail me. Stealing from the NHS is beyond comprehension.

We teach our children to be honest yet many responses show that adults dont practice this themselves.

Great post BTW flowery.

[flowerybeanbag]

May well be tax Sally, hopefully that's what it is.

Thanks HappyMummy

Hi Shiney, yes I did have a vague recollection you were in the police; I'm sure you're right, that the police wouldn't be interested in this unless requested to pursue it, that was a bit of an extreme theoretical example.

[cheeseandeyeballsarnie]

i wouldnt or couldnt.