to object to paying a donantion towards ingredients for baking at nursery when dd can't even eat the finished product.

[thesockmonsterofdoom]

well am I?
They are baking bread at nursery, they said they don't want dd to feel left out so she has been told that she can give hers to mummy or grandma, she is coeliacs.
Anyway I actually have better things to worry about but I did think it is a bit off to ask for a contribution to the ingredients when they can't even be bothered to find gf ingredients for her. and if they were willing to do gf bread with her I would have happily bought all the ingredients myself.

I don't think the money is the issue here. If your child is nursery age she would probably ingest enough gluten when making bread to make her ill (licking fingers etc). Making gluten free bread, and I'm sure you know this, but others probably don't, is entirely different to making normal bread because the mixture is a sloppy cake like texture, so no kneading which is probably the fun bit.

If I were you I'd just say she would have to miss out on this activity but offer to provide gluten free ingredients another day so all the children could make GF cakes - which unlike the bread will taste normal anyway.

So, basically it would make her ill if she ate it? I still think YABU. The kids are going to be kneading a bit of dough not manning a bakery. Just ask them to make sure she washes her hands properly and I'm sure it'll be fine.

that is unfair EYE. I wouldnt/couldnt let ds just 'make him wash his hands properly'. OP shouldnt be made to do that for her dd. Especially as she is willing to provide the materials

it would annoy me.

dd1 is gluten and dairy intolerant.

she cannot even handle playdoh withuot reacting, and would not be able to do this activity.

I have had similar discussions with her pre-school. sometimes they include gf options, sometimes they don't (I haven't managed to work out the criteria for when they do/don't - it seems to be on a whim)

because dd1's reactions are not (in their eyes) severe, they seem to think it ok to carry on as they are.

this term they have had a severely dairy allergic boy start (anaphalactic reaction). they have asked me to ensure that dd1's snacks/treats are dairy free as they can accomodate this now

it would appear that sometimes it is the severity of the reaction that counts, not full inclusiveness.

If they are making bread then any of the children could get ill from touching the raw dough as it will contain yeast. They can also get yeast infections. You have to be careful with little kids making bread.

I think they could easily make gf bread with everybody. I would talk to the nursery and if they object I would put in a formal complaint.

We have had situations like this at work before and instead of singling children out because of it, we have let the children make all the same stuff, so we would have used GF flour for all the children.

I think it's unfair - part of the fun of cookery lessons was eating the finished product and aso trying something new sometimes (which I realise probably isn't the case here - she'll have eaten bread before )

dd1;s previous pre-school used it as a good opportunity to talk to the children about how some people can't eat some things.

so when all the children were drinking milk at snacktime, and dd1 had some juice instead, it was because "milk hurts silvertadpole's tummy"

likewise when they did baking they had two sets made up - one "normal" and one gf.

and they talked about the difference in texture of the doughs, how they might taste different etc.

it's not that hard to do really

As MissAnneElk says, you don't knead GF bread, so the activity wouldn't be the same, I don't think YABU at all, I have Coeliacs and have been ill in the past from making mince pies from normal flour (I think I "inhaled" it from the air, I was making a lot of mince pies!!) so I would be unwilling to let one of my children do this if they had coeliacs. DD2 is dairy intolerant, and regularly joins in with cooking activities ay nursery, they just do a special bowl just for her. It's not rocket science.

Don't send any money,, send her into school with some gf bread mix..........

YABU. I think all effort should be made to be inclusive, but at what point does it become all about the child(ren) with allergies and unfair on the others?

Having her own little bowl is one thing, expecting everyone else to make GF bread is quite unfair. Theres no kneadig, which is the main activity for them while making bread, and tbh, its not very nice.

And children will not get ill from touching dough, fgs, its not dangerous in any way.

Either let her join in wearing gloves and give the bread away (surely its not news to her that she has to deal with this) or send in some GF bread mix for her to do herself. TBH I think its a really bad lesson for a small child to be told that everyone else should change what they are doing to to accomodate them, like they are the centre of the universe. Its not real life.

(and I speak as someone with bad allergies and as a parent of allergic child, so I do have a clue)

Pooexplosions...the ops point was that she was quite happy to send stuff in so she could do her own bread just for her but that the nursery did not seem open to that...at least that is what I picked up anyway.

pooexplosions, I agree with some of what you are saying.

however, sometimes it is just not as simple as sending in your own stuff.

dd1's preschool will not let me, for example, send in separate stuff for her, even to the point of lunch.

fine as well as it goes, but in that instance I would expect them to be managing dd1's food issues themselves.

which they do not do.

I do think the separate tables with normal and gf are the way to go - it is an interesting and viable comparison that take sin all sorts of issues.

and not all gf bread is horrible, and some of it can even be kneaded (although it is substantially stickier at that point)

I was very grateful to my dd1's previous rep-school for highlighting the differences tbh - they also had a lot of talks about not sharing snacks etc with dd1 as they would hurt her tummy

OP, I think YANBU.

Some children would be ok making things and then letting somebody else eat them instead of them (my DD for example, fussy eater extraordinaire), but let's face it: when people have a fussy child they are always told "get the child to make the food with you, then they'll want to eat it."

They will all want to eat the bread they have made and the staff will all be saying "ooh yummy bread, you'll enjoy that, oh not you of course littlesockmonster you'll have to eat your special bread.

IMO arranging an activity that one child cannot fully participate in (ie she can make it but she can't eat it) is faintly hurtful, to make no effort to suggest an alternative is also faintly hurtful, and to then ask you to pay is adding insult to injury.

When my DS1 made pizza at school he had his own table with his dairy free paraphanalia and made his own. They should be able to do this for your DD.

Can she not wear those thin disposable gloves, or would that be too risky if they slipped off?

OP - my DD is coeliac, and was diagnosed at age 5 when she had just started school. they have alwasys gone out of their way to check with me about what she can and cannot do

coeliac disease is often misunderstood, as not being "as serious" as, for example, an allergy where the child has an anaphylactic reaction. But even inhaling the flour could do damage to the coeliac childs gut lining, and make her have tummy ache, vomitting, diarrhoea.

now she is 9 and can be trusted not to eat some or lick her fingers, i would let DD knead dough. she should not be expected to sift and deal with the flour though

how can they exclude a nursery child in this way - they jolly well should make allowances for religious and medical dietery needs.

is it an option to keep her off that day and bake at home yourself?

yabu. any child with an allergy is going to have to learn to adapt, not expect the world to adapt to them.

Actually I think this is always about all concerned trying to be reasonable and keeping your eyes on the prize.

I would have no problems with DS2 contributing, joining in and then bringing bread home for his brother to eat because for him the ACTIVITY is as importnat as the produce.

He is thoroughly enjoying FT at school and I work with the school to send in as much as I can, they provide some too and sometimes he can eat it and sometimes he can't.

I appreciate any help I can get but tbh children like my son who is gluten, dairy, nut, egg and soya intolerant cause ME huge problems in terms of ingredients. I expect schools to make an effort but I honestly don't think they should feel obliged to find all those ingredients and understand the cooking implications of all the alternative. It is complicated for me and i have been handlingthis for years.

And anyway - who really wants to eat those sad offerings that come home squished in the cake tin

The more schools and nurseries are expected to cover the less they will be inclined to even attempt those kinds of activities.I am wary that all children - not just mine - will lose out in the long term

Why cant they do an alternative with her. At DS's pre-school they always use gingernuts when they decorate biscuits as DS is dairy intolerant, funny enough no-one has noticed

pagwatch has a good point - if schools have to jump through so many hoops to do an activity, they will just scrap it.

I do see your point pagwatch, but there are degrees of everyone concerned trying to see the balance.

dd1 (also gf/cf with a couple fo other things thrown in) is expected to join in with activities at school that will give her a reaction. she is ridiculously intolerant to so many things, and I do try to send in as much as possible whenever the school lets me.

and that si where the problem lies - dd1's school do not believe the gf/cf diet works for anyone. at all. and so of course her beingon the diet cannot be serious. and so they carry on, paying occasional lip service to gf-ness (when they made playdoh as an activity they made gf playdoh. but every other week that they have played with playdoh it has been normal playdoh. they got dd1 sticking shapes on paper instead of using wheat bran for something, but then gave ehr roast potatoes (roasted in butter) for lunch. the list goes on, and the DO know what she can and cannot have as have been through it ad nauseam)

and so while the school shouild not be obliged to find all the different ingredients that dd1 can tolerate, I do expect them to not expose her to stuff that she will react to (I am always happy to provide alternatives but usually am not allowed to - I cannot even send in lunch for her even though the school has admitted they cannot adequately cater for gf/cf)

Have they specifically said that even if you bring the flour in, they will not let DD use it ? If they HAVE said that, then YANBU.

ah silver
That is a terrible issue - you have my huge sympathy.

DS2's school used to be really stupid about it too, refusing to think there was a problem and sending chocolate bars home in his bag [sigh]

I took a picture of him after he had eaten a chocolate cup cake they gave him ( can you believe they gave him a farking cupcake!) - he was weeping and had huge circles under his eyes and had been in the toilet for much of the evening. They finally then got it - I just have to go in at the start of each year to make sure his new teacher 'gets it'.

They should be supporting you even if they don't agree. makes me so cross!

I hope they start to be a bit more helpful - they sound as though they are not making an effort at all really.

Another pain in the arse thing to deal with....

oh they won't support at all - they are right, you see? they cling to the fact that gf/cf hasn't been proven as such, and has little medical backing, rather than taking on board anything I say.

I totally get what you mean re: the cupcake.

dd1 has a simple instruction on her food list: gf/cf, no citrus, and everyhtign else to be "real" food (ie an actual pear, rather than ridiculous fruit sticks or whatever they are called. fresh rather than tinned, etc etc)

and they gave her jelly.

they then witnessed the fallout from that (dd1 silent and passive at school turned into screaming biting monster) and still they don't believe

and when I looked absolutely shattered later that week (sleep went to pot as she dealt with the crap from the jelly) and asked why, and I wrly said "oh she's not sleeping very well - she gets like that after diet issues" and they just laughed it off and told me all ASD childrne have sleep issues, and i was lucky that I didn't normally have issues...

the fact that they won't even let me send in suitable alternatives is the bit htat grates - I even asked for a copy of their menu plan so i could send dd with the same thing but ok for her, but it's not allowed at all. and apparently dd1 is the one with control issues

still, she won't be there much longer if we have our way, so hopefully will soon be a thing of the past.

I think it is mean to not let her make some GF bread in a separate bowl. Even if she doesn't need to kneed it, there is still the mixing etc - you can buy packets of GF bread mix can't you? Just add water? Then at least when it all came out of the oven she would have something as well. Can't see why this is such an effort.

As an aside why is yeast dangerous for kids? DS and I often make bread together and I have never heard of yeast being a problem. We don't eat the raw dough of course.

I would absolutely expect nursery to go to extra trouble to make sure she can join in.

I'm coeliac also and have to be careful when using normal flour if i'm baking for the family so making for someone else is not ideal.
I would offer to supply your own bowl utensils and baking tray so she can make some bread using breadmix and then bake it at home, the glutafin one is quite good and you could add it to her presciption.

I would want her on a seperate table with her key worker aware of how important it is that her mix is not contaminated.

I actually would be quite disappointed that they hadn't thought this through its not exactly an inclusive activity.