to have felt that calling the police would have been appropriate in this instance?

[Sunfleurs]

I have thought a couple of days before posting this as I know it is going to be a sticky one.

I took dc to soft play and then for Sunday Dinner this weekend at a local Wacky Warehouse. This place often has Irish Travelling Families there, think there is a site fairly local.

During the meal there was a couple at the next table with two children a baby and one who looked about 3. The 3 yo was refusing to eat her meal and the mother was really angry, hissing and swearing at the child. In the end she pointed her knife at her daughter and told her she was going to "f*cking stab her!". The Dad looked a bit annoyed and said something to the Mum and then just wandered off to the bar to get another pint.

I was absolutely horrified and said so to the people I was with. One of them works with some men who are travellers and he just said "there is no point saying anything, thats just how they are, it's just how they bring their kids up, if you say anything, she will most likely go for you and you have your own kids to think of". . He was not at all surprised by it.

I haven't been sure about posting this but it has been on my mind and I wish I had done something, probably called the police rather than said anything. What do you all think of this? and what, if anything would you have done?

It's a sad, sad world that we live in. But here on mn, we are surrounded by parents who care deeply about every aspect of their dc's life, and sometimes that allows us to forget that not every child grows up in such fortunate circumstances. And sometimes that makes us throw up our hands in horror when we overhear other mothers shouting at their kids.

I do think however that there is a big, big difference between the mother saying something that YOU perceive as a threat, and being anywhere close to the child's life being in danger. As other poster have said, traveling communities have some very strong internal values and principles and without knowing about these it is difficult to assess the risk.

Yes it was an awful thing to say, yes it was verbal abuse. But sadly there are many, many children who are much closer to actual risk / harm. And the priority of the police and social services is to act where the greatest risk is.

So if we don't like that situation, and want to do more than just find it sad, then donate to a parenting charity, campaign for us all to pay more council tax, do some voluntary work to support people who are not so fortunate that they have access to the mn network. DO more than just complain here. Do something.

campaign for us all to pay more council tax?

don't think i'll be joining you on that crusade.

30p in every pound of council tax we pay goes into pension funds, I won't be campaign to give away any more to the fat cats.

NO, I would not want to pay more council tax either.

Just reflecting reality that our social services and police are really, really overstretched dealing with high risk cases. So if we want this kind of verbal abuse to be addressed then either we have to fund more services, or we have to roll our sleeves up and get in there ourselves.

It doesn't get solved by worrying on an internet forum.

Sorry I haven't read whole thread and am ignoring the travellers part of it but from a legal perspective if an adult said that to another adult whilst holding a 'weapon' knife (blunt or otherwise) - they could have been subject to a prison sentence. Just the words would be 'threatening behaviour, putting someone in fear of violence' enough.

I just witnesses something like this in Sainsburys. Women matching description given by OP has a small girl (probably aged 4) with her. Girl is asking to buy something, woman says 'no', girl asks again and the woman says:

'Shut yer fucking hole'
and then 'I'll fucking knock you out if you don't shut up'

I was

and wondered if I should say anything

Small girl then cries, half-heartedly for a minute. Mum + girl go off to tills where little girl is obviously not the least bit perturbed by what just happens, as she says 'Mummy' and skips around happily.

I've no doubt she'll turn out just like her mum, but not much we can do about that really.

Ever so sad that people can be allowed to get away with this behaviour.

Someguy, I guess that the damage is already done, then. If that sort of remark is brushed aside by the child (on the surface) then it is probably the norm within the family. And the child has seemingly become inured to it.
Although I'd guess that underneath that skipping is one bewildered little girl.

Do you know what clam? The sad thing is that she probably is not at all bewildered, it is her normality.

I remember as a child with a physically abusive mother hearing a friend say that their Mum was really angry with them for something and I assumed she must have been beaten and said something along the lines of "oh did your Mum hit you then?" My friend looked at me like I was a bit strange and said "No, I had to go to bed for the whole afternoon". That was the worst punishment they could come up with in her house. I just thought it was normal that parents would attack their children and punch, kick and terrorise them, to me being sent to bed for the day was not punishment as I knew it.