to wonder why people say they would NEVER vote Labour/Tory?

[scarletlilybug]

Being something of a floating voter, this is something which genuinely bemuses me. Saying "never", that is.

"I'd never vote Tory".
"I'd never vote Labour".
What, regardless of the policies proposed/party leader? Is there no conceivable change that a particular political party could make to induce you to vote for them?

I'm downright worried by people who proclaim that "I will always vote xxxx".

For example, people who would never vote Conservative because of Thatcher? Notwithstanding the fact that she's been off the scene for almist 20 years?

OR who would never vote Labour because of Blair and the Iraq war? When he, too, is gone (or sort of - I shudder to think of him as President of Europe. But that's another issue...).

(These are just examples here of the sort of thing I've heard, to try to explain what I mean).

What's wrong with listening to the actual policies a party is proposing, making a judgement call about the qualities of their leadership - and then voting accordingly?

I was floating but will vote Tory , and why? I have read some very bigoted posting on this site. I thought MN was to help mums not a Party Political B/Cast from The old stle Labour Party. There are real benefit scrounger out there taking the piss, like it not they do exist. If you say the word scounger you are villified. These people steal from us all and they dont care. Wnating to deal with the genuine scroungers in the most draconian fashion is not wrong.
Also women who have several kids by different dads and have never worked, why should I support them. Achild is not a meal ticket and these people have no dinity. Call me bigoted if you like ladies But MN has some real bigots out there, I thought I had time/warbed back to 1977.

Sorry about typos still seething, steam coming out of ears.

HH, I believe the BNP has a down-to-earth manifesto addressing many of these issues in a similar way to you.

OK benefit Fraudsters not scounger too emotive I accept. So what do you propse for genuine fraudsters nighbynight pat them on their back and send them on their way?

Would never vote for tory "scum". personally dont like that word, would rather think of them as "misled" but since its being thrown at all labour supporters..

and for me it is about principles, beliefs, and history - the values of the labour party - principally social justicehave been constant throughout its history - thats more than can be said for the tories who pick up and drop principles and beliefs as and when it suits the electoral need.

how many benefit fraudsters do you know, hh?
I knew loads, about ten years ago. Most of them were taking small amounts, typically they met someone else who was also on benefits, moved in together, and didnt declare themselves as a couple. Why not? because the joint benefits were lower than 2 singles, and many people who are already very poor didnt have the courage to make themselves even poorer.

So if its still like that, Id reform the system so that people dont lose money by entering a relationship.

Other people fell into the category of claiming benefits, but doing the odd bit of part time work. They are benefit fraudsters by the official definition, but the paperwork involved in declaring a job that lasts 1 or 2 days was enough to put most people off on its own. I believe that the system has tried to tackle this problem, there is no easy answer really and afaik, it is still a nightmare if you dont earn enough or regularly enough to get off benefits.

Then there were the fraudsters with 10 different IDs and a flat in every london borough - they are just professional thieves and should have the book thrown at them. Also the people who were getting housing benefit paid on houses belonging to their parents, and other such tricks.

The point is, that there arent huge hordes of fraudsters out there. you talk about "patting them on the back and sending them away", but the reason Im not bothered about benefit fraud is not because I think they should all get away with it, its because I recognise that they arent the biggest problem facing britain.

harryharpie - how many 'benefit scroungers' go into one high paid banker then? If a banker costs the tax payer £6million a year say? Or what about a Top NHS manager? How many 'benefit scroungers' go into their annual salary? A council leader? An MP? Any other public sector workers who are able to effectively sign their own cheques?

The scrounging, greedy attitude goes through every level of society. It is strange to decide that you are voting for someone based on things some people are posting on MN. It is also strange to assume that Anti-Tory posts are also Pro-Labour. There are more than two political parties...

yes quite - the "banker scroungers" have cost us all a lot this year.

Good lets chuck out the justice system and let all the muggers and murderers out of jail, let them get away with it too and the guy who cloned my passport and credit card nicked last year. Thats what nighby beleives (oops forgot that half the murderers ,muggers,knifers arre already out and some defrauding the system, pat on the back there then nighby

harry your last post is a bit bonkers. If you want to talk politics, please do read what I actually wrote, instead a red flag.

I don't like red flags there are too many on MN Also Curiosity lib dems dount really count as libs have not been in since Lloyd George and GREENS GOD HELP US! same to UKIP BNP and all looney fringe. I appreciate many viewponts are not all Labour but there is awful lot of old Labour Socialist Worker diatribe goin on here. The country came out to vote in force in 79 and they did not want Old Labour and this is what you just dont get, no-one wants Old Labour any more, just a coven of witches on MN

what has the justice system got to do with anything at all?

Don't really count?! ROFL!!! Are you not able to vote for them then?!?!?!

Unless someone actually states they are Pro-Labour it is mental to assume they are! You can dislike the Conservatives for any reason you like, you don't have to be Pro-Labour, just Anti-Conservative IYSWIM.

The point of democracy is that everyone votes for who they'd like and that is supposed to give a fair representation of the country's views. You don't vote for who you think will win! It's not a horse race! ROFL!

[puts 4 bottles of baby cham in fridge to open and toast DC on winning next years election thinks will be nicely chilled by then, also irons blue bunting to hang ouside house and checks ebay listings to see if can buy one of Sam Cams lovely handbags, thinks so much to do so , or for dear Gordon so many to screw and so little time to do it in, thinks ....cant rein i the excitemnt oooh the anticipation after 14 years of twats and red flags]
back again from my reverie, I cant wait for thes charlatans to go, old labour will rear its ugly head again and the party will end up as marginals yip bloody pee!

Point me to the Old Labour Socialist Diatribe - I want to plant my red flag firmly next to it! If I had to characterize the average Mumsnetter politically, I would suggest that she is 'Soft Right" rather than "Hard Left"!

I've never met a tory I liked.

I'm sure statistically there must be some agreeable ones, but I've never met one.

seeker - lol, you are making me think of boiled eggs! Must be hungry...

I would NEVER vote Tory.... never ever. I might vote for any of the other main parties (Not BNP obviously) but I just wouldn't vote for the Tories as they don't give a shit about the people who matter the most and who need the most help.

Sorry but their 'core valuse' are not 'equality of opportunity' they do not give everyone an equal opportunity.

harryharpie - how funny that you choose to use mumsnet to make a party political broadcast yourself

Banker Wankers were propped up by Tony and Gordon who loved honobbing in the City and were
so seduced by all the bling and promise of big fat donations to the Labour Party.£££$$$$ It was fucking Gord who allowed Wankers to regulate themselves and this sowed the seed of the disaster, it was not the Tories who did this. Also Gord went wild with the Country's credit card and just spent spent spent like the arse who stole mine . Talking of hobnobbing I will open a pack of these when Dave get sin next year tooo

you have such an eloquent way with words harryharpie.

goood lord just read HH's vote.

I used to be a staunch labour supporter (brought up in the NE of England during the Thatchers - what else was I going to be??? ).

I have voted SNP and Lib Dem in more recent elections, and spoiled a paper when I had a choice between Tory and Labour.

Tory isn't about "equality" - they only want equality if you're good enough (or somehting like that).

I suspect harryharpie is Gordon Brown in disguise trying to make us all look down on Tories more than we already do here on Mumsocialistnet.

I would never vote Tory because Social Justice, Equal Opportunities and care for the vulnerable are not any part of Conservative values. I was a single mum with 2 autistic children under the last Tory government, I know what they are really like.

I also lived through Thatcher's destruction of Scotland's industry and saw countless families torn apart by it; fathers of young children commiting suicide because every able bodied man in their community had lost their job and there was no way of finding any employment, ambulance men on strike, schools closed for weeks on end because of teachers strikes, benefits at a level where people struggled to survive (I got £72 a week for 3 of us and CB etc. were all deducted,) the poll tax, which was quite possibly the most unfair tax ever put upon the british public, the almost impossibility of someone from a school or town like mine going to university even with grants and no fees because student support was so pitiful and kids like us weren't supposed to achieve very much, anyway. My own town had something like 50% unemployment and has never recovered because all the industry has gone. Then of course there was the Falklands War, the nuclear arms programme, the state of the rrailways, the state of the hospitals. I could go on, but I won't.

As far as I can see David Cameron is just Thatcher in a suit but is better at presenting himself in a way that is palatable to the public. But, deep down, I don't believe anything has really changed within the Tory party. I fear a Tory government and what that will do to ordinary people. Unless the Tories morphed into something completely different, left their old members and supporters behind, acknowledged the harm that they did to people the last time round and basically became a whole different entity, I could NEVER vote for them.

In saying that, I won't vote for Labour, either, or the Lib Dems, after they ditched the local income tax policy in Scotland just because the SNP wanted to bring it in. No, I will vote SNP becaue I want to live in a country that doesn't have to fear David Cameron as PM, that supports itself and its citizens and wants to invest in its people.

Dont see any soft righties on here, nope, just chippy axe grindin viragos clinging on to the old dinosaur values of hard left. Now look what you have made me do I will have to go and get roll of Fiesta abloody gain!1 Dont go way Laydees was enjoying one sided political debate with youxx