Should a teacher override a doctor?

[LadyMuck]

Ds1's hand got trodden on yesterday in the playground. After he did his homework his fingers had swollen noticeably so we went to the local minor injuries department who referred us to hospital this morning. His hand was xrayed and the fingers aren't broken, but the bruising is quite bad, and he was given ibuprufen last night and this morning. His 3rd and 4th fingers of his writing hand are strapped together and the dr advised him not to write or use the fingers until Friday, keep them elevated and use icepacks as necessary.

Dropped him off at school and spoke to his class teacher, looking to see what we could do about writing as I don't want him to have 4 days of work to catch up on next week. She said that actually the class would be having "standardised tests" for the next 2 days and ds1 had to write, and there should be no problem as it was multiple choice. She did say that had the finger been broken then of course the situation would be different.

Now if we were talking about a matter of life and death then I suspect that ds1 could do the tests - he might get uncomfortable but it would be possible. Nevertheless that isn't the medical advice that we have been given and I'm at the teacher's response.

WWYD?

Am wondering if your DS misses the test, whether she has to justify the reason, and is applying some sort of standard? Not that I agree with her, but just trying to understand why she would be so unsympathetic? Perhaps a bone broken is a legitimate excuse, and bruising isn't per some list of reasonable excuses?

I'd speak to the head teacher about it, and infer heavily that you are being pressured, against medical advice for DS to take the test and are sure that this isn't what was meant, but are there any targets at risk here?

Well, clearly this is a teacher who does believe that she knows best. Ds1 came home with English homework having completed an English comprehension exercise this afternoon - admittedly it is barely legible, and if there is any comeback on that at all I will be furious. So despite 2 conversations today, she went ahead and had him writing this afternoon.

At the same time ds1 isn't in any particular discomfort. The attention from his classmates of arriving late and bandaged seem to have offset the inconvenience of it being difficult to write.

So she has still overridden medical advice and what I understood to be the outcome of our discussion today. OTOH ds1 not obviously bothered. Though mother of friend has phoned me as friend was upset that ds1 had been forced to write.

Unless his hand swells up overnight I will only be arguing over the principles involved rather than any permanent damage or discomfort to ds1. I guess I usually prefer to pick my battles, and I'm not sure that this is one I want...

But does the AIBU view change given that we are no longer talking about lefthanded etc - she is clearly reneging on something that we had agreed. I can't honestly believe that ds1 gladly volunteered to write without at least some prodding.

How much do you/ds like the teacher involved?

Definitely sounds like it would be worth speaking to the teacher again in the morning to ask why, when she had been specifically told that ds should not write, she had made him write against doctors orders.

If she says 'I said he should because it's only a bruise', just repeat and tell her that she had been told that ds was not to write and it was not for her to make the decision against medical advice and that you will be talking to the head to find out what the protocol for this is because, should it happen again, you want to make sure that medical advice is not ignored.

And then follow it up with the head - definitely worth it. Needn't be in the form oof a big complaint (initially ) - merely describing the situation to the head and asking what the protocol is for teachers being able to decide which medical advice they follow and which they ignore should be enough to start some interesting questions you would have thought...

And ok, this time it doesn't seem to have affected your ds too badly. but there are times when you can injure yourself and not break a bone but damage a ligament for example, which can be just as bad (albeit different)as breaking a bone.

And that's only for starters - it's the whole teacher/parent respect thing - if you tell her something like this that affects your child's health you need to know that they will respect it. Otherwise how can you trust them to look after your child?

The teacher/school are being really irresponsible on this. They are actively going against doctor's advice? On what grounds?

Surely they are putting themselves in a very difficult position if your child ends up inf urther pain and the injury taking longr to fix itself as a resullt of their actions.

I think you need to take a firm line with the school. He is not to write. Therefore he does not write at school. He can do the tests next week if necessary.

Personally I'd keep him home. So much of school is writing, and it's clearly a busy week for them when they're concentrating on getting tests done. Better for him to spend 3 more days at home resting that injury than to be highly active at school imho.

He's only 8, he can miss 3 days without any kind of problem whatsoever work wise.

Seen later post. TBH I'd be tempted to keep him off on principle tomorrow, seeing as she made him actually write today. And on his return send him in with a note explaining that he was off as you couldn't trust that he would not be made to write again, despite medical advice instructing him not to.

I'd keep him at home, too. The Dr said he could go to school on condition he didn't write. If the school are making that impossible, keep him at home and write a very terse letter explaining why you don't trust them to abide by medical advice.

I'm sure your son won't mind having a day off, even if his hand does seem OK!

So you tell her that the doc said no writing, she said he had to write for a test. You said ok then just for the test and she said ok. He comes home having written for a lesson and with homework. A friend of your son is so worried he told his mum who rang you. Could it be that your son just doesn't want you to be speaking to the school again so id playing it down?

Either way its no acceptable, where is the trust in his teacher if you can't beleive what she tells you?

PS i would keep at home as well seeing as you can't trust what she says

e-mail the teacher outlining the conversation you had with her; reitierate the advice the doctor gave and ask for an explanation of why your son was writing.

Copy to the head. Sit back and wait. It works.

Frankly the teacher sounds like a power crazed arse.

I think you should complain.

How old is your son? I only ask because there are few tests that a child HAS to do at this stage in the term. And if he really does have to do them then the school can (and should) provide a scribe. Get a letter from your doctor informing the school that the doctor has advised against writing and take it to the headteacher today.

Well your OP doesn't say that the Dr said he should go to school.What he said is that he must keep it elevated and use ice packs.Are you (and the doctor) expecting the school to do that.If he can't participate in school activities then he should be at home (unless of course it is a longer term ailment such as a broken leg)

The OP doesn't say that the Dr said he could go to school, but does imply it (by saying that the doctor said no writing 'til Friday - most kids do most writing in school, imo), but anyhow, LadyMuck did clarify later on that the doctor did say that her ds could go to school, and that he could participate in the activities that didn't involve writing - question and answer sessions in class, reading etc.

As this information had already been given, your previous post ("YAB a bit U because you are not following the Drs advice either !! The Dr said he should be at home RICE ing it") was somewhat critical as well as inaccurate.

I would be annoyed. Something similar happened to me when I was at school and the bloody power-crazed teacher made me sit the test. It was an essay so I wrote it with my left hand. She refused to mark it as she couldn't separate presentation from content. And then she said she was sorry, she hadn't realised I had REALLy hurt my hand. Witch.

I agree with the advice to email and cc the head.

What right has the teacher to override the Dr? Would she like it if the Dr came in and set the work for her class! Stupid teacher and I would talk to the head about it.

Forget the teacher, you need to speak to the HT or whoever is in charge of pastoral care. The rights or wrongs of your son writing with his left or right hand notwithstanding, this is some power- crazed know it all who because she used to press the X ray button thinks she knows better than the medics. I would be absolutely fuming in your place.

Stayingsunnygirl -good point, well made and I had missed her reply.But i do think it is unreasonable to send a Y4 child to school who can't write and expect them to not only cater for that ( very likely distracting the others doing their work ?) but also to nurse him with ice packs and slings.Also you can take ibuprofen doses at 4 hour intervals (obviously up to the max)
At the end of the day the child could quite easily have done a multiple choice with his left hand.So i do think the Op is unreasonable and PFBish

Ah well, katie - we can agree to differ, can't we.
I do still think that the wider point is valid - generally speaking, a teacher shouldn't be overruling a doctor's advice.

I don't think she's being unreasonable in sending him to school. Her son has hurt his hand, but is perfectly capable of being in school and can still learn without writing. I think good on LadyMuck for not keeping him off school until his hand's better which is what a lot of parents would do. No, the school shouldn't be expected to nurse him but I don't think she's asking them too. She's just asking the teacher to respect the fact that the Dr's advice is that he's not to write.

Sorry katiestar, but which is it? You seem to think that he was both a burden to the school "in case" he needed to wear a sling, and that he should have done multiple choice with his left hand (which by the way has not been suggested by the teacher - she made him do english comprehension with his right, despite a face to face mtg and a follow-up phone call!).

If you had made a face to face request and a follow-up phone call based on medical advice that you had been given by a professional who had examined your child both the previous evening and that morning would you really think it pfbish or unreasonable to be annoyed that the teacher ignored the request entirely? I did make it clear in the OP that if it was that important I thought that ds1 could do the tests, I am just rather surprised at the teachers insistence, and a bit suspect that she is calling on her previous professional training to back this up. I have no idea as to why she changed professions for example.

As it happens ds1 seems to have survived yesterday without any problems, or at least that is what he is telling me. From my perspective it is too early in the school year to wage war against his class teacher, so I'm waiting to see what happens. We have not yet raised the issue that the incident occurred when 20 Year 3-5 boys were left unsupervised for 20 minutes, nor that the teacher did not give any first aid or record the incident in the school accident book. If the teacher is overly critical of ds1's presentation of his written work yesterday then we'll probably drop her an email to remind her of the fact that he shouldn't have been writing in the first place and ask to meet with her if she still has an issue.

LadyMuck have you involved the headteacher yet? I know you said you were reluctant too, but it sounds to me as if you must! You are completely within your rights to insist on this if nothing else, and your doctor will back you up.

Understand your reasons for not wanting a fight, but I think this teacher is taking this too far (and as an ex-teacher I am always defensive of my people!)

Ladymuck to answer your question.Your DS should not have been in school.
You have not followed the doctor's instructions.you say he said that your DS's hand needed to be iced as necessary.The school's ice packs are for FIRST AID.i don't think they would even be allowed to administer them in other circumstances.
However I do think you have a very valid point as to why your DS didn't receive first aid at the time of the incident and I would certainly follow that up.

Could I just point out here that just because nothing is broken it doesn't mean he is ok to write and that the injury shouldn't be treated with care? I take it that this teacher is not claiming to be a hand therapist as well? The hand is a delicate network of ligaments, tendons and nerves, and permanent damage can be done to these if injuries like the one suffered by the op's ds are not treated with care.

My ds fell awkwardly on his hand, bruising the joints of his two middle fingers when he was small. He had to wear a splint and attend the clinic for weeks to check his mobility. Though it was finger joints, the therapist said the tendon in his palm could be affected if we didn't take care.

Also, I have pretty painful osteoarthritis in my thumb joints because I sprained them years ago (lifting hefty toddler) and didn't go to doctor and get it strapped. Just kept struggling on with normal life...