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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Should a teacher override a doctor?

83 replies

LadyMuck · 22/09/2009 12:09

Ds1's hand got trodden on yesterday in the playground. After he did his homework his fingers had swollen noticeably so we went to the local minor injuries department who referred us to hospital this morning. His hand was xrayed and the fingers aren't broken, but the bruising is quite bad, and he was given ibuprufen last night and this morning. His 3rd and 4th fingers of his writing hand are strapped together and the dr advised him not to write or use the fingers until Friday, keep them elevated and use icepacks as necessary.

Dropped him off at school and spoke to his class teacher, looking to see what we could do about writing as I don't want him to have 4 days of work to catch up on next week. She said that actually the class would be having "standardised tests" for the next 2 days and ds1 had to write, and there should be no problem as it was multiple choice. She did say that had the finger been broken then of course the situation would be different.

Now if we were talking about a matter of life and death then I suspect that ds1 could do the tests - he might get uncomfortable but it would be possible. Nevertheless that isn't the medical advice that we have been given and I'm at the teacher's response.

WWYD?

OP posts:

FranSanDisco · 22/09/2009 12:52

I would see how it goes today for your ds and if he found it difficult go back in to her and explain that. Hope he feels better soon as it sounds painful.

Scotia · 22/09/2009 12:53

In fact he should be at home with his hand elevated and using ice as your doctor suggested.

seeker · 22/09/2009 12:57

How old is he?

Original poster

LadyMuck · 22/09/2009 12:59

Dr said that he was fine to go to school (he was in school uniform both last night and this morning), just no writing. They don't write in every lesson (he is only 8 after all), and I had no idea until I got to the school that there were tests (in fact they seem to have been sprung as a surprise).

OP posts:

Original poster

LadyMuck · 22/09/2009 13:01

Seeker, he is 8, just started Yr4. But weak pencil control and poor handwriting at the best of times. He had difficulty writing 0s last night.

OP posts:

seeker · 22/09/2009 13:07

So he's not doing SATS or GCSEs or anything? No need for him to do these tests today - they aren't externally marked or anything like that? Why on earth couldn't he just tick the boxes with his left hand then? Or use a scribe?

My ds broke his right wrist the weekend before his year 2 SATS - they managed to arrange a scribe for him at very short notice - like 2 hours!

BalloonSlayer · 22/09/2009 13:11

Heaven's sake you should have been on to the school office by now requesting a scribe.

That's all he needs for the tests. There should be no problem providing one; if the tests are important then the need for scribes if a child hurts their hand should have been factored into their planning.

But as the teacher has decided he doesn't need one, you need to be on the phone sorting it out for him instead of going round in circles with us lot YABU and YANBUing you.

Three facts to tell the office:

Doctor says he mustn't write
Teacher says he must do the tests
Therefore he needs a scribe, please sort out for him

Job done.

Get on the phone !

seeker · 22/09/2009 13:12

There are no important tests in year 4!

corblimeymadam · 22/09/2009 13:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

junkcollector · 22/09/2009 13:21

I agree with Balloon Slayer. I would also add that you should perhaps mention to them that his performance on the test may be impaired if his hand is hurting!

Original poster

LadyMuck · 22/09/2009 13:22

I was on the phone balloonslayer, but had to wait until school lunchtime to speak to his teacher. I didn't particularly want to go over her head or behind her back.

As for medical qualifications it transpires that she has been a radiographer for a number of years. Still not convinced that it gives her the right to overrule the local hospital's advice...

Tests aren't until tomorrow, so we can sort out something for then depending on what he needs. I suspect that the school likes to have the test results, and they've been postponed due to swine flu and e-coli. As I said in my OP if it were life and death, then he could do the tests. I'm just that the teacher blithely overrides medical advice for annual CATs.

OP posts:

FabBakerGirlIsBack · 22/09/2009 13:25

YANBU

I would have said if they were going to go against the GP they need to put it in writing and deal with any consequences.

Sometimes I think some teachers forget the children are not theirs and they don't always know best.

yellowvan · 22/09/2009 13:25

keep him home and put ice packs on it and keep it elevated like the doctor said. You can dose him up with ibuprofen etc and make sure he rests it. Much easier to rest it at home than at school I should think.

katiestar · 22/09/2009 13:32

YAB a bit U because you are not following the Drs advice either !! The Dr said he should be at home RICE ing it

Karam · 22/09/2009 13:45

I was going to point that out too, Katie star!

Sorry, but the teacher is acting no differently to you, so I don't think you have the right to criticise.

If your son's hand is so bad that he must not write with it, it must be elevated and packed with ice, then you must keep him home and do that. You can't pick and choose which bit of advice you want to listen to!

Further, you criticise the teacher for making judgement calls on topics she is not qualified on (deciding whether the hand can be used for writing) but you seem to have failed to notice that the doctor has also done the same. He has said that it is appropriate for the go to school - but surely that is outside his area of expertise? How can he make a judgement call about the school's ability to provide rest for the hand, ice to pack it with, something to elevate the hand and a scribe to avoid writing? Surely, he does not have the authority to state whether the school can provide this for a day or two?

I think this is not so clear cut as it may seem. The doctor has made recommendations that are not that practical to be applied in school, you are choosing to listen to half the advice and then moaning at the teacher who is (wrongly in my opinion) choosing not to listen to the other half of the advice.

If his hand needs to elevated and kept in ice and not used, then I think you should keep your son home until he is fit and well again, and more importantly, I think you should follow all of the doctor's advice, at home.

Original poster

LadyMuck · 22/09/2009 13:46

Um Katiestar the dr said that he could go to school, but not write with his hand or play his musical instrument. If it gets worse then he has a sling to use and we apply icepacks, ie as necessary. But not unless necessary.

OP posts:

oldraver · 22/09/2009 13:48

Er Katiestar and Karam the op IS NT going against medical advice. She says the doctor said he could go to school but no writing, that the hand should be elevated and ice oacks wehn necesary

mmrred · 22/09/2009 13:53

I think if the child has an injury sufficient to need rest and ice-packs, YABU to expect the school to do that for you, plus try to run tests and magically find a scribe so he can take part (where from, the spare teacher cupboard?)

clam · 22/09/2009 14:03

Standardised tests in Year 4 sound to me like CAT tests. Which are for the school's info only. And surely they can do for your DS what they would have to do if he was absent. Which is to let him sit them next week when he's better.

Smithagain · 22/09/2009 14:03

Regarding the tests - DDs school have been doing tests last week, using some external scheme to provide a standardised assessment for the beginning of each year. She said they were multiple choice (and fun - but that might just be her!)

If he's going to school, I think you need to find out just how much writing is involved and whether he will, in all honesty, be able to manage (left hand/first two fingers/dot in the box) or whether he will need a scribe.

Kids break arms, collar bones etc all the time and go into school. It can't be the first time the teacher has come across a child who's not supposed to be using his hand.

Original poster

LadyMuck · 22/09/2009 14:21

There was a comma! Hospital's advice:

DS well enough to go to school (take the point that school not Dr's area of expertise, but so far only a few MNers are suggesting that he is not well enough for school - Dr, teacher and mother are all in agreement!).

Do not write or excessively flex fingers until Friday (3rd & 4th fingers are splinted together, straight - try it - it is pretty hard to write! I struggle even to pick up the pencil!). This is where teacher and dr disagree, though teacher does agree that he only needs to use a pencil for the tests - all other lessons will be worked around. She did suggest that his brass lesson would have to be theory this week for example as he couldn't press the valves.

Give ibruprofen every 6-8 hours (last dose at 10:30am, so will be fine until end of school).

If swelling increases, use sling and apply ice. DS has sling in schoolbag, and the school has icepacks, but if it got that bad I would expect school to let me know, and I would take him home. But he has had his arm in a sling at school for a 6 week period previously. No way would he have been sitting at home for that long!

So I feel that I am following hospital's advice. If the only option is to keep him off school tomorrow then I would, but not because that is the dr's advice, but because I do not trust the teacher to follow the dr's advice. I went to talk to the teacher to see if we could discuss together how best to manage his work for the remainder of the week as I know it is a pain when something like this gets thrown into the mix, though as it is a boys school they are well used to broken bones. Tbh, given that he is 8, and these are not SATS, I would expect him to read his book whilst the rest of the class did the tests, and if really necessary he could do them in a lesson next week. But what bothers me is the teacher's assumption that she can simply override what the dr has recommended without my agreement. I was "told" what would happen, end of story. Now for all I know she may even have more experience of broken/injured fingers that than the doctor we saw does. But that isn't the point is it?

OP posts:

Stayingsunnygirl · 22/09/2009 15:21

I wonder if Karam is going to apologise for being so critical of LadyMuck based on her inaccurate reading of the thread?

I am a nurse, and I would not be at all happy if the dses' school decided to ignore a doctor's advice in this way.

LoveBeingAMummy · 22/09/2009 15:27

NOt acceptable as far as I'm concerned. she's more bothered about ahving to explain why not every child took the test.

Karam · 22/09/2009 19:58

Yes, sorry that my post has come across a bit harsh - (more critical than I had intended) - bad day at work! Also, the situation was not made clear in the initial post, but the op's subsequent post does clarify many points.

It does sound as though the teacher is trying to help, with the exception of the test. Lots of people have asked why he can't write left handed... Have you specifically asked that of the teacher and has that been specifically denied? You say it wasn't discussed, but that is not necessarily a no - it is unclear as to how that has been left. I suspect that the teacher's reluctance could be down to the fact that these tests often have to be scanned in and if done badly, the computer would be unable to read and analyse them. This could be her concern (not just laziness, as someone else said!) to me the solution would be to get him to complete his answers onto a photocopy of the test using his left hand and then someone can quickly and neatly transcribe his answer onto he actual paper for the computer analysis bit. If the teacher does not agree to this, strap his arm up in the sling for the day, surely she wouldn't have the nerve to take his arm out of the sling?? I do agree that she is wrong not to listen to the doctor's advice (as I said in my first post) and think lots of the previous posters have given sound advice as how to solve the problem. To me, the left hand solution is obvious. If she hasn't outright refused this solution ( and to me that is unclear), then I would press that solution as the way forward.

abbierhodes · 22/09/2009 20:01

I don't get why this is dragging on. When she told you he had to write, why didn't you just tell her that he wouldn't be doing the tests. End of conversation.
I don't get why this required a second conversation.

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