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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Fed up with the NHS

127 replies

AliGrylls · 18/09/2009 16:42

I am wondering if I am the only one who feels that the NHS is bleeding this country dry and is absolutely useless at the job it is supposed to do.

I had, what I thought was, a bad experience on the NHS when I was in hospital being induced in that I had to wait 2 hours for a saline drip during which time I threw up almost constantly and then had to wait a further 2 hours for an epidural when the pain following an amniotomy was excruciating. Eventually I had a c-section that went smoothly.

This however, appears to be nothing in comparison to what some people experience.

Friends have told me much worse. In particular I have heard that in St Georges (local teaching hospital which is the size of heathrow) in Tooting you can expect to wait up to 4 hours for an epidural. Also, one of my friends told me of a girl from her antenatal class who was in labour for 14 hours, who apparently had to give birth in the labour ward because there were no delivery suites available. She was not offered any pain relief - not even gas and air because in the labour ward they don't have the equipment available.

AIBU for thinking the healthcare system in this country is shocking (I guess I am thinking in relation to childbirth but generally as well). If not, please tell me your positive story to help me from going crazy on this subject.

OP posts:
MaggieBeauLeo · 18/09/2009 20:56

Wow, that is terrible. Was it that many? good lord.

LittleSilver · 18/09/2009 21:01

Also near in mind that no US states are required to publish maternity mortality statistics, unlike the UK where the "Why Mothers Die" report is published - I think annually. Also view the US's WHO ranking. Give me the UK any day and I will be grateful for it.

DaisymooSteiner · 18/09/2009 21:04

Yep. Their maternal mortality rate was 74.2 per 100,000 - 6.5 times the national average.

DaisymooSteiner · 18/09/2009 21:06

Well yes, I would rather give birth in the UK than the US. But there are other systems which seem to strike a better balance between private and state funded healthcare, and have better outcomes in many areas, including maternity care.

(Why Mothers Die is published once every three years)

MaggieBeauLeo · 18/09/2009 21:08

But no such thing is published in the states?

Obama should go BACK to looking at the NHS imo. (I don't think he's going to take my calls though).

LittleSilver · 18/09/2009 21:09

Thanks DaisyMoo, do you know I did almost type that but annually sounded more likely!

DaisymooSteiner · 18/09/2009 21:12

I think the thing is that (thankfully) maternal deaths are so rare that an annual report wouldn't have a large enough number of deaths to spot any trends.

mrsruffallo · 18/09/2009 21:15

YABU
I think the NHS does an amazing job on the whole.It isn't ideal, and some people do take the piss but overall it had cared for myself and my family extremely well.

RumourOfAHurricane · 18/09/2009 21:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

parker1313 · 18/09/2009 21:31

I dont think this post is idiotic.
Everyone is entitled to their opionion.No need to be rude!
My experience of the nhs is in mental health with my dad.
He was eventually sectioned after some fight I have to add and bing fobbed off left right and centre.He is now in a recovery ward and has no room!!
He has to go and sleep on a geriatric ward but not until 10pm at night.He has no where to keep his things so they are in a storage cupboard in laundry sacks.
Due to his mental health he is too scared to ask for things and can see that the staff are so busy he doesnt feel he should bother them.
There are simply not enough staff on the ward!
He is beginning to smell and is sitting in the same clothes.
I have verbally complained and have done a written complaint.
I have also just wrote off to the local mp.
Its not the nursing staffs fault its the funding and management.
They need more facilties and money.

anonandlikeit · 18/09/2009 21:41

Your opinion is always going to be based on your own experiences & how they fit with your expectations.

Personally, if it wasn't for our GP, convincing me to be checked out when at 28 wks the babys movements stopped our ds2 wouldn't be here.
Our Gp picked up the telephone & arranged for me to go to the hospital for a check up, ds2 was found to eb in severe distress, an emergency C section followed.
DS2 spent the next 2 mths is SCBU, there were some very scary moments when i saw the NHS at its absolute best.
The training of the staff, the compassion & dedication that they have for their tiny patients is second to none.
I honestly believe all the money in the world could not have paid for better treatment.

DS2 is 6 now & continues to recieve 1st class care on the NHS, paediatricians, physio, occupational therapy, psychologists, orthotists, SALTS etc etc.My parents too, who as they age are using the services more & more now realise the benifits of the NHS.

Yes we pay our taxes but when its needed they really have come up trumps.

There are thousands of stories like ours accross the country, which is just the NHS doing its job well.
Like everything its the bad news stories & the failings that hit the headlines... and so they should... but it needs to be balanced with us hearing about the fantastic work that the NHS does.

Sorry that was long but its something i feel strongly about!!

MichKit · 18/09/2009 21:49

YABU. I understand that everyone has their experiences, but the NHS is brilliant in my opinion. Last year I went to my GP with very generic symptoms, cough, lost weight etc. GP was concerned and sent me off to hospital where I was diagnosed with TB (which apparently I caught in London ) The NHS staff were simply marvellous. I was whisked off to an isolation unit, very efficiently but kindly processed, and DH and DD (6 months) were allowed to stay with me whenever DD needed feeding. I was discharged after a week of isolation, but on the consultant's list, with free medication (6 months of antibiotics), and constant care and support.

You have no idea how grateful I am to my GP, and the hospital... things could have gone horribly wrong, but I am now fully cured.

Same with DD's hernia and CAIS support, plus DH's depression and illness. I shudder to think how much all our illnesses put together would have cost us if we didn't have the NHS. I for one, am extremely grateful!!

duchesse · 19/09/2009 08:52

my contact with the nhs over the last year has been nothing but positive, from the community and hospital-based antenatal care, through the management of the time surrounding the which included a switch from planned home birth to emergency c section in the middle of the night for which some other poor lady with a less urgent problem was bumped off the theatre list for a couple of hours while the staff saved my baby, followed by the few days Baby spent in nicu being looked after by immensely dedicated and wonderful staff at all levels, and my postnatal care which was handled throughout with the utmost sensitivity given that my baby and I were separated. I could not sincerely fault any of it. I saw services operating at many different levels of urgency and never once felt that I was not being treated as an individual- the staff responded to our needs at all times. Not our wishes, but our needs.

larrygrylls · 19/09/2009 08:59

CuriosityKilled,

There are some wonderful front line staff in the NHS. However, there are also some awful ones. That is exactly the same as in any organisation.

It amazes me how naive people are in being absurdly grateful to the NHS in doing what it is very well paid (via YOUR taxes) to do. Doctors and nurses save lives, the good ones very well and the bad ones a lot less well. That is their job. They do this whether paid by "The State" (i.e YOU) or via insurance or personal savings. I have never heard of anyone writing wonderful thank you letters to their insurance company because they paid the private doctor/hospital to save their lives. And that is wherein the problem lies. The government and most of the media portray the NHS as this wonderful free service. It is not. And, as the practitioners and patients/clients buy this lie, it creates a culture that any care is a wonderful thing and we should not complain.

Now to move from theory to anecdote. My father died last year of a massive heart attack, aged 82. The staff at UCH intensive care battled for hours to save his life. On the other hand, they failed to contact me until 48 hours after he had passed away, despite me having the same surname, being in the phone directory and being a prominent number in my father's diary he carried with him at all times. The year before he had a first heart attack, what is termed a "silent" one where he had no chest pain but was breathless and his legs had severe oedema. Despite visting his GP twice, he missed it completely. Finally, a locum spotted it and sent him to the Royal Free. The care in the High Dependency Unit was, once again, superb. However, as soon as he moved to a general ward, the care became chaotic, not to say downright awful. They failed for a week to give him an appropriate course of diuretics to bring the oedema under control (and allow him to sleep in a bed, rather than in a chair awake all night so that he could breathe). During this time he saw a cardiac consultant once. Despite terrible insomnia (we are talking 48 hours with 0 sleep), they failed to give appropriate sedation. The nurses and ancillary staff insisted on calling him by his first name and talking down to him as if he were a child, despite the fact that he was a graduate with no mental deterioration whatsoever, to the extent of reading out the dinner menu to him rather than giving it to him to read.

So, CuriosityKilled, it will be no NHS for me in my dotage thanks. If I am able to afford it, it will be dignity and nice sheets. If not, it will be opiates and single malt scotch taken at the appropriate time.

Until a linkage is made between those who pay for healthcare and those who provide it, there will never really be a culture of respect for patients. Whether that means insurance, co-payments, or vouchers, I do not care. Of course, everyone should have the right to healthcare. However, there is more than one model of how to get to that point.

pooexplosions · 19/09/2009 10:54

The thing about paying for it in your taxes, is that your taxes aren't very high. The large majority of you don't actualy pay much at all for the NHS, nothing compared to what you actually get back. Do you know that a straightforward hospital birth costs around £10k? How long would it take you to pay that in your taxes, let alone anything else? Here in Ireland we pay more tax than you and still don't have an NHS (although a lot of hospital care is free as a public patient, you just wait a lot longer and pay a smallish fee)

The NHS is not perfect, its a long way from that. But it is better than most countries, its a wonderful institution that deserves much more respect than it gets. Waiting 4 hours for an epidural is I'm sure not pleasant, but its hardly life and death is it? If the anaethetists were doing something more important, then thats as it should be.

You are very lucky to have the NHS, warts and all.

Boodlerpoop · 19/09/2009 11:42

Hmmmm YABU. Living in Ireland, where I had to pay ?50 the other day in order to get the pill of the doc. Was literally in there for 10 minutes. Then had to pay ?8 FOR pill in chemist. Not impressed.

Morloth · 19/09/2009 12:00

I have found the NHS to be excellent everytime I have needed it. Both for middle of the night A&E with a sick/injured child, to an ambulance trip we needed, to repairing the damage (self inflicted!) to my knee, to the ante-natal care I have received so far.

I don't mind paying tax towards universal healthcare, it is very important that people have access to it regardless of their financial circumstances. DH has not even registered with the NHS since we have been here and has paid an astonishing amount of tax and even us selfish types are more than happy to pay towards it.

It is fairly on par with the Medicare system in Oz, though there we choose to use private medical as it is a lot cheaper then it is here and is a way we can take pressure of the public system - we still pay our Medicare levy.

I am always afraid when in the States, I buy the best travel insurance I can but I still worry. People suffer when there is no universal healthcare and they suffer badly.

Worth every cent IMO.

Boodlerpoop · 19/09/2009 12:09

off the doc...

Chandon · 19/09/2009 16:00

I have a good NHS experience.

yes I had to wait 4 hours for a bed, lying on a stretcher, but that is not the hospital´s fault. The staff were professional and good, the place was clean and I was looked after well.

I am not even British, and to receive decent healthcare without question, just because I live here (and pay tax )to me is amazing.

Still, for giving birth I would choose to go private if I could afford it!

loobylu3 · 19/09/2009 16:13

Are you really sure you would want to go private for giving birth if you could afford it? I am medical and have friends who work in O&G in London. Have heard several horror stories about disasters from The Portland being 'sorted out' in the NHS. In the private sector, you pay to see the same consultant every time and probably much more frequently than is necessary. You have a nice, private room, excellent facilities, etc. You will still be attended by a midwife in labour if everything is normal. If you needs an instrumental delivery or a CS, it would be performed by your consultant, rather than the registrar on call. (The registrars are normally pretty good at these things as they perform them all the time). I don't think you pay for a safer or better delivery, just more personal treatment and better staffing levels. I'm not trying to be nasty, just pointing out the facts as I see them. If I had 10,000 to spare, as a medical professional, I would not choose to spend it on private obstetric care! I've always been really happy with my NHS community midwives, etc!

qwertpoiuy · 19/09/2009 16:30

Spend some time depending on the appaling HSE in Ireland and you will gladly welcome back the NHS with open arms.

We have to pay to vist our GP (about ?50 upwards per visit) or A+E (?100 per visit), waiting times are very very long, all the country hospitals are losing their services meaning we have to travel to Dublin for most treatment (try driving to Dublin from the back roads of Ireland).

I lived in the UK for 4 years and think the NHS is by far the best.

AliGrylls · 19/09/2009 17:41

Parker1313, I think you are getting my point. I don't blame the staff. I am sure they are mostly competent. It is more the fact that they are overworked / stressed and therefore obviously struggling to keep up with the needs of their patients.

Sorry to hear about your dad by the way. I hope he gets better soon.

OP posts:
TinaSparkles · 19/09/2009 17:53

DH is on dialysis and has to go to hospital 3 times a week. Am undergoing tests to see if I can donote him a kidney. Appointments have taken a long to come through though and first began testing over a year ago, only for his dad to be ruled out.

He spent 4 weeks in hospital last year with a stomach infection in a high dependancy unit, possibly needing surgery and was in chronic pain and had tubes coming from everywhere.

I myself, gave birth with gas and air though was at the point of asking for an epidural but with three sets of twins in maternity unit that night resources were overstretched.

From what me and my family have seen the hospital services haven't always been what we have desired. Things take a long time to happen, nurses and other staff have to be reminded that something needs attention.

But thank god they are there. Don't know what we'd do without it. So YABU.

BetsyBoop · 19/09/2009 19:42

I'm sorry you had to wait 4hrs for an epidural, but that meant that there were women who needed the anaethetist's care more urgently, be grateful for that.

A few hrs after DS was was born (el c/s after VBAC plans went north) I had a massive PPH (lost 2.4L of blood in 2hrs). The obs registrar couldn't get lines in (blood vessels shutting down due to blood loss, earlier lines not functioning) & they fast-bleeped the anaethetist as it was highly likely I was going to be rushed back into theatre. He got lines in, I eventually stabilised & I avoided theatre by a whisker, thank goodness (I had already signed the consent forms & told hysterectomy very likely by the consultant who had by then arrived). As soon as I was stable he was off to a woman needing a em c/s.

It was a busy night on the labour ward, so I would bet there were women there just like you who waited longer than they would have liked for an epidural. I'm sorry they had to wait too, but I'm very glad the anaethetist was there when I needed him, or I might not be around to tell this tale.

As has already been said, unless we all want to pay a lot more tax, it's not viable to have extra Drs, midwives & nurses sitting around just in case it's a busy night & everything kicks off at once.

No the NHS isn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than most other choices IMHO.

dee0468 · 19/09/2009 20:10

I agree with the posters who compare our system with the system in Ireland. I recently went on holiday to Cork and I was told that the the nearest maternity hospital was an hour and a half drive away.
When, I gave birth to my 1st child my waters broke with meconium. Fortunately, I was in hospital at the time as within an hour and a half of this I was rushed to theatre for an emergency/crash section under GA. My dd was born with an apgar of 2. Had the staff not done what they did she would probably have died.
The NHS isn't perfect. My second birth was another emergency section and my treatment was fine. However, the care received afterwards was less than perfect. Not the fault of the staff but I guess general cuts.
I was also discharged by a nurse following an a Missed Miscarriage (ERPC) but compared to other countries we have it good.

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