Fed up with the NHS

[AliGrylls]

I am wondering if I am the only one who feels that the NHS is bleeding this country dry and is absolutely useless at the job it is supposed to do.

I had, what I thought was, a bad experience on the NHS when I was in hospital being induced in that I had to wait 2 hours for a saline drip during which time I threw up almost constantly and then had to wait a further 2 hours for an epidural when the pain following an amniotomy was excruciating. Eventually I had a c-section that went smoothly.

This however, appears to be nothing in comparison to what some people experience.

Friends have told me much worse. In particular I have heard that in St Georges (local teaching hospital which is the size of heathrow) in Tooting you can expect to wait up to 4 hours for an epidural. Also, one of my friends told me of a girl from her antenatal class who was in labour for 14 hours, who apparently had to give birth in the labour ward because there were no delivery suites available. She was not offered any pain relief - not even gas and air because in the labour ward they don't have the equipment available.

AIBU for thinking the healthcare system in this country is shocking (I guess I am thinking in relation to childbirth but generally as well). If not, please tell me your positive story to help me from going crazy on this subject.

I'm grateful for the NHS and I think, for the most part, it does a brilliant job.

Earlier in the year a neighbour asked me to take her to A&E (it was St George's actually - the hospital the OP mentioned) because she'd sliced her hand open with a kitchen knife.

We arrived at A&E at about 11pm on a Friday night and it was like a war zone. Some poor nurse had just finished cleaning up a floor full of puke when another drunk came in and chucked up everywhere, the receptionist was being sworn and spat at, the nurses were being shouted at and abused, a drunk couple were fighting and swearing at one another, there were kids screaming and all around pandemonium.

We got seen very quickly - because we were polite and sober and not covered in vomit I suspect - but I just came away thinking what a great job the staff did and wondering how the hell they did it without murdering half of the rude, smelly, ungrateful, low life patients.

YABU. I once treated an old lady who refused to tell me she was in pain post-op. She didn't want to make a fuss because she was so grateful for her treatment. She remembered the pre-nhs days.

I agree bethnoire all children should be entitled to the right support to overcome their difficulties, re behaviour problems is should be treated systemically anyway rather than located in the child, what I'm saying is socially caused behaviour difficulties shouldn't neccessarily be the remit of CAMHS.

CAMHS is a mental health service and supposed to be disorder specific, behaviour problems aren't mental illness/disorder. There either needs to be another tier created to help these families with their own team of behavioural intervention workers or these types of interventions need to be handed back to children's services and resourced accordingly.

I will be honest I'm a bit burnt out with the number of aggressive, abusive, hostile outbursts we have to put up with, all in the name of "customer satisfaction".

I an see that, my asd son likes to be very aggressive and hostile, and at least he can't help it and I willlove him regardless.

I do CAMHs have been incredible with us so far, I avoided them for years on other peoples advice but after a referral RE sleep- can't fault them.

also my maternity care with dd was excellent, in an inner city, "high need" v busy hospital. During a stressful delivery the midwife, paed etc. were fantastic, she stayed beyond the end of her nightshift to see it through, she didn't have to.

Afterwards on the ward I got my own room straight away, no questions asked. There were 4 staff on duty caring for 25 women and lots of babies. It was hectic, mainly due to the horrible aggressive surly, nasty attitude of a fair amount of the other women and their thug like partners. Kicking off at the midwives over trivial issues (not enough yoghurts!?) and generally being intimidating and unpleasant. Yes they forgot a few things with me but is it any wonder??

I was scared of some of the other patients and I didn't have to deal with them day to day.

They actually told me to ring my bell MORE for help! I didn't want to bother them whilst they had all the lowlifes to contend with.

It would help immensely if some sectors of the general public treated nhs staff with a bit more respect, as well as the other way round.

curiositykilled, I absolutely agree; applying a capatalist approach to a socialist principle is never going to work.

I work for the NHS and have also been on the receiving end like 99.999% of people. It's not perfect despite the fact there are thousands of dedicated staff putting in LOTS of unpaid overtime. I am proud to work for it and I will bet my bottom dollar it won't be around to look after me when I am old. The trouble is that we have now been spoilt for seveal generations and don't remember what it used to be like - I had someone complain that the NHS now only send a chiropodist round (to do a home visit) once a month instead of twice. We should all be so lucky come twenty years time.

I've had mostly excellent care (with a couple bad incidents) and mainly OK admin with some almightly cockups and some fantastic people who really went the extra mile to help.

For example my birth at St Georges was wonderful despite being much longer and needing more intervention than I'd hoped - got an epidural consultant within 30 min of concluding it was needed, and then a 45-min consultation about my complex medical history and then had it. I think about 50 staff were involved all told, and they were all excellent.
Shame the postnatal staff were shockingly overworked.

Yes the admin across the NHS needs huge improvement, but how to do that easily while not risking more people having access to confidential records? My experience of private healthcare is pretty extensive too and generally while you get free coffee and more asking how you are, the admin is even worse by a long way!

Thinking about it, are there any companies known for their competence in admin and how do they do it??

OP- there are certainly examples of poor NHS care (I think perhaps more so in London where there seem to be particular staffing problems). I think if you have received obviously substandard care, you should complain. As others have pointed out, in your case, it would simply be the case that the anaesthetists were dealing with more urgent cases (eg emergency CSs). There is just no chance that the trust will be prepared to employ an extra two anaesthetists to sit and have coffee in case of a particularly busy day. They much prefer to run the staff ragged (and then encourage them to lie about the hours worked so that they can get way with paying them less and say that they comply with The European Working time Directive).
Agree with curiositykilled and herladyship. The main problems with the NHS (imo) are the constant political interference, poor management, involvement of the private sector while cost cutting on front line staff. Most of the medical staff that I have worked do a v good job, often in difficult circumstances.
I don't the NHS will exist by the time I am retired which is really sad.

I´ve had a lot of experience as a patient with:

• the NHS
• specialists who work exclusively with private fee paying patients
• doctors & specialists who work in both the public and private sectors

I have paid a HUGE amount of money to private health insurers and this is absolutely no guarantee of quality of care, sadly.

Health insurers EXCLUDE some expensive pre-existing health insurance from their cover. This treatment I have to pay fully, out of my pocket.

I don´t want to even start to think about how much I currently pay for health care each year, but as a reasonably healthy woman it still figures high alongside other normal expenditures.

OP, you get what you pay for from the NHS and much much more. It may not be perfect, it may not be a bottomless pit of resources, but it does a good-enough job. And be grateful that you were not asked to go through all official papers and signatures as you were throwing up. I wasn´t allowed to give birth till my papers were in order.

Personally I think the NHS comes through for you when youe in a dire need such as when my son was diagnosed with cancer - his care was second to none and without it, he would have been dead within just a few days.

Sorry you've had a bad experience when waiting 4 hours for epidurals and 2hours for a saline drip - but let's face it, you were not dying - you were having a baby. I am sure and would hope that had things been going badly, you'd have been a priority for sure.

Hate to see the NHS being slagged off as we owe our son's life to the care of dedicated specialist nurses and doctors - yes, they could do with more specially trained doctors and nurses in paediatric oncology but hey-ho, can't have it all!

YABU at least we have a service which is accessible to all of us.Inevitably some folks will have rotten experiences but that can happen anyway.I have no complaints,DD had both babies in local hospital and all was pleasant and professional.

My (I admit very emotional) gut reaction is the same as yours wheredidmyoldlifego. We nearly lost DD2 this year after she became critically ill with a chest infection, developed trachyitis and was rushed into intensive care. Throughout that awful period in our life she received care that was second to none and I am fully aware that she would not be with us today had it not been for the dedication and expertise of the team who treated her. We owe them absolutely everything and I will never stop being grateful.

Yes, it's awful if someone is in pain for any longer than they need to be - they shouldn't have to be and there are, I'm sure, many things that could be improved. But bleeding this country dry? Really?

I also feel like I have to add that the care that was shown to us as parents was outstanding to the extent that a senior consultant even hugged me when I broke down not to mention the wonderful nurses in PICU and their total devotion and kindness to our family. Anecdotal, I know, but it means absolutely everything to us.

Im sorry to hear you had a bad time giving birth , you really should put a letter of complaint in .However as someone who works in the NHS ,it really depresses me ,when people generalise the service as you have

Well I bloody love the NHS, after 15 years in England,they treated me whenever I wandered in. I had two children so quite a bit of attention, all completely FREE.

Back in my own country now and it costs 50 euro to go to the doctor.

HAIL the NHS. bows down in envy and reeeespek.

If you don't like it, go private!
More space for those of us who can't afford it, yet still fancy not dying in childbirth.

If you hadn't go on to have your free CS, AliGrylls, would you or your DC still be here? Would you have had the £5k to hand for the operation, and more for the aftercare?
In the States, despite some people having medical insurance, the providers don't like to pay for unforeseen illnesses etc. I heard recently medical bills are responsible for 50% of bankruptcy in the US.

I'm so grateful for living somewhere where, if one of my children have an accident, I don't have to fret about what the A&E bill will be.

I do wonder whether part of the reason I've been treated well on most ocassions (there have been times when I've been less than satisfied too) is because myself and dh have been polite and respectful to the staff, unlike a large proportion of the clientele. Esp on that post natal ward and on the few ocassions I've been in A+E.

Today at work (im 28 weeks pregnant) i have been spat at ,had my arm scratched and been kicked . I also sat and hugged a man who had been give a diagnosis with a terminal prognosis. Then i stood and smiled sympatheticaly whilst a woman told me she was disgusted that she had to wait a full 5 minutes before anyone came and passed her her glass of water ,even though she had just walked totally unaided back from the toilet, a distance of at least 10 metres .welcome to the wonderful world of working in the NHS

When I was still working (and pg) my old employer pointed out to me that I could have my baby at the portland hospital.

SOmebody had just died there because they didn't check her bloodpressure. I'm sure she died on egyptian cotton sheets in a private room with a vase of flowers by the window overlooking regents park though.

I had my baby at kingston hospital instead. bread was stale the next morning, but does that REALLY matter?!!?!?!? they brought my baby into the World. Alive. Thank you very much.

(because of my bupa I mean)

yabu in terms of the statement that the nhs are bleeding the country dry but it is not unreasonable to be angered about the state of maternity services in the uk. We moved to ireland and it is 100 euro to go to a and e no matter the age or condition of the patient (e.g. my 1 month old dd with severe breathing difficulties). Now that really is unreasonable

Gone on, soz.

Well said MaggieBeauLeo!

I am the Daily Mail's worst nightmare; an NHS manager and a single parent.

Couple of things, the majority of our experiences relate to childbirth. It's actually one of the few times people get hospital care when they're not actually sick. Um, I don't think waiting four hours for an epidural is the worst thing ever. What I would have issue with is why no-one told you why you waited so long - clinical evidence, clinical need (someone else in emergency c-section), disorganisation (pretty likely).

Staffing levels - the number of nurses, doctors on wards etc. is recommended by the colleges, e.g. Royal College of Nursing. Some have more, some have less but this is what the professional bodies say there should be.

Agree with blu - what are you doing to improve things? Please, please make a formal complaint, it will not compromise your future care and it's the way change happens.

Also, articulate (white, middle-class) women do better out of the NHS than anyone else. Be grateful you're not male, black, illiterate, schizophrenic etc. Then you would experience bad care, I have seen things that would reduce you to tears.

Oh, and are you willing to pay more in tax so there are more anaethatists to do epidurals? Even though most of the time they wouldn't be that busy and cost £100k to employ. Or would you just sack all those awful managers who make excuses?

Cheers cranky. A year living in Ireland would cure the ingratitude!!!

It does seem ironic to me that my 'own' country charges me for medical care, but when I lived in the UK they treated me for free. Wow. I just have to respect that.

I thought we had it bad in Ireland, but if the average American is paying 600 dollars (it must be dollars) a month health insurance, then that beggars belief!!! At least here if you're poor enough you're treated.. And voluntary health insurance wouldn't be more than about 90 euro a month. Just makes you think, America is not the shangrila we think. Fabulous, 'til you get SICK. And Americans dare to criticise the nhs?! It made me cross tbh!!!

Remember Northwick Park (NHS hospital) MaggieBeauLeo where 10 (yes 10) new mothers died in about a year?